Author Topic: Drainage time  (Read 4526 times)

Offline denny

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2011, 09:47:20 AM »
It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.

Can you say how it contributed to clarity?

Again, if it works for you, it works, but I also crush very fine average 85% efficiency, and don't condition.  Malt conditioning might help some people, but I'd say it's far from a universal solution.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2011, 12:49:00 PM »
It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.

Can you say how it contributed to clarity?

Again, if it works for you, it works, but I also crush very fine average 85% efficiency, and don't condition.  Malt conditioning might help some people, but I'd say it's far from a universal solution.

I'm gonna guess that the other poster finds that the husk integrity is more in tact which helps with a clearer lauter. However, like you I haven't really found a link between uber clear lautering and clear finished beer.
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Offline denny

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2011, 02:17:14 PM »
I'm gonna guess that the other poster finds that the husk integrity is more in tact which helps with a clearer lauter. However, like you I haven't really found a link between uber clear lautering and clear finished beer.

Yep.  I've also found that if you really care about clear runoff, pH control is the way to get it.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2011, 06:34:50 PM »
I have a cooler mash tun with a braid that I've been using for several years now. I crush with a JSP Maltmill set at .039"and I don't malt condition. My crush is fairly fine but not as fine as flour. I can usually drain 30lbs of malt using a 1.25:1 qts/lb in about 10-15min. My beers are typically clear after a few weeks and the tannin levels are non-existent. In fact my most recent ESB is so clear it's like looking through a glass window.
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Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2011, 07:35:40 PM »
I also mash in a cooler with a SS braid.  I drain a little slower than some -- it takes me about 30-40 minutes to collect my first and second runnings (batch sparging).  I've never malt conditioned and I don't have any problem draining.  As for clarity, I'm more inclined to attribute those issues to factors such as pH or the type of malt (see, e.g., the Maris Otter haze thread).  Since I've been becoming more knowledgeable about water chemistry and how to hit an ideal mash pH, I haven't had any clarity issues whatsoever.  I've been brewing a lot of Pils lately and they turn out clear as a bell -- without adding any finings -- after only one week of lagering.  
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2011, 08:02:46 PM »
Braid here also.  Monster Mill at 0.035, no conditioning. 10-15 drain time.
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Offline malzig

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2011, 08:07:18 PM »
... I don't malt condition. My crush is fairly fine but not as fine as flour. I can usually drain 30lbs of malt using a 1.25:1 qts/lb in about 10-15min. My beers are typically clear after a few weeks and the tannin levels are non-existent. In fact my most recent ESB is so clear it's like looking through a glass window.
Then I wouldn't recommend Malt Conditioning to you.  The OP is having trouble with slow run-off, so I think it might help him.  Clearly there is a difference between your two systems.  He can try rebuilding the tun or changing other parameters randomly, and perhaps he'll solve the problem, or he can condition the malt and have a decent probability of solving the problem.
It's a process that has only upsides, for me, and I even suspect it may be contributing to the improved clarity of my beer, lately.
Can you say how it contributed to clarity?

Again, if it works for you, it works, but I also crush very fine average 85% efficiency, and don't condition.  Malt conditioning might help some people, but I'd say it's far from a universal solution.
Again, I wasn't saying that people who don't have runoff problems should start conditioning their malt (unless they just want to give it a try).  It isn't going to cure a problem that you don't have, just like taking antibiotics aren't going to make you feel betterr if you don't have an infection. I don't think it's easy to come up with another treatment for slow runnings with such a high probablility of solving the problem, other than coarser milling which risks lower efficiency.  I recommend malt conditioning to people who have slow runoff and it seems to help them.

I perfected my current water treatments around the same time as I started Malt Conditioning, so I can't say for sure, and I usually credit my water treatment to my improved clarity.  In fact, I've always had pretty clear beer, but I was controlling my pH and still had some minor haze (nothing I ever fretted about, I could still read the paper through my beers).  Since I've been Malt Conditioning I've had absolutely crystal clear beers as soon as they're carbonated.  Frankly, I'm wondering why people use finings.

I don't bother trying to get clear runnings.  I don't believe that matters, at all.  I've tried it both ways and it never does in my beers.  I think that I may have reduced my already slight polyphenol extraction to even less, thanks to not having a tun full of tattered husks. Perhaps it's just enough to give me a slightly larger leeway with pH and Calcium.  

I don't mean to oversell Malt Conditioning, and I haven't done the proper experiment, I'm just saying that there seems to be a correlation in my brewery.

Offline 1vertical

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2011, 11:28:04 PM »
I will try to KISS the problem and suggest that the OP double check the bulkhead fitting
and insure it is snug as comfortable and gasketed correctly.  A small leak
at the bulkhead could be the culpret   Also I put a twist of copper wire inside my braid
and tension the braid tube so that the pores are in the compressed....large unconstricted
form....opposite of pullling on the thing like a chinese finger cuff trap. (which makes the pore
dimension smaller)
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Offline dano14041

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2011, 07:23:40 PM »
I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice

Are you sure your braid is really stainless?  People have been fooled by the lookalikes from the big box stores that are actually plastic.  Folks that have fallen for that say that it takes forever and a day to drain.

I checked my SS braid, and it is plastic.  :o Guess it is time to go find a real one.
Good Thread!  ;)
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2011, 07:28:37 PM »
I think my braid is a bit too long and it is really bunched up, so maybe I'll try shortening it. After vorlauf, it look me almost an hour to get the first runnings, even with the spigot fully open, it was just trickling out. Then after I sparged, it was probably another hour. Maybe a mash-out will help, but I think shorten my braid and stretch it out more. Thanks again for the advice

Are you sure your braid is really stainless?  People have been fooled by the lookalikes from the big box stores that are actually plastic.  Folks that have fallen for that say that it takes forever and a day to drain.

Last I checked Home Despot had plastic a bLowe's had the SS.

I checked my SS braid, and it is plastic.  :o Guess it is time to go find a real one.
Good Thread!  ;)
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Offline dano14041

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2011, 07:32:09 PM »
That would explain it. I will be at Lowes this weekend! Damn those cheap plastic imitations!  ;)
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2011, 09:12:53 AM »
Something I saw hinted at a few times in this thread, but never really highlighted: Storage. Many of you (Denny?) that have no problem crushing fine and draining may be starting with a higher moisture level malt and this less brittleness of the husk......

Just thinking out loud.....
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 09:49:53 AM by oscarvan »
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Offline denny

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2011, 09:32:30 AM »
But that doesn't account for the same performance when I open a brand new bag of grain.  Nice idea, but I don't think that's it.
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2011, 09:50:50 AM »
Are the bags impervious to ambient moisture?
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Offline denny

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Re: Drainage time
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2011, 09:57:01 AM »
Are the bags impervious to ambient moisture?

If they weren't there would be a lot of pissed off breweries.  They're impervious enough that if I open a new, fresh bag of grain the moisture level should be close to what it was when it left the maltster.  Most of the grain I buy comes in plastic lined bags.
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