Author Topic: Copper manifold vs false bottom  (Read 4244 times)

Offline phillamb168

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Copper manifold vs false bottom
« on: March 01, 2011, 12:20:52 AM »
So, I've got an electric boil kettle that I'm going to move to mash tun work as an electric direct-fire. The problem is, the diameter of the kettle is non-standard, at least for the false bottoms I can buy off-the-shelf, and I have no idea how to make a false bottom myself, nor where to buy the parts. So, copper manifold seems like the way to go. The question is, what sort of hit am I going to get on my efficiency? Am I going to be more prone to stuck sparges?
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 12:26:28 AM »
Why not go with the braided hose like Denny uses?  You can run a tube from the inside of the outlet to the low point of the kettle and add the hose to that . . . just a thought.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 01:53:21 AM »
Why not go with the braided hose like Denny uses?  You can run a tube from the inside of the outlet to the low point of the kettle and add the hose to that . . . just a thought.

That'd be great, but I have no idea where to get braided hose around here. I can find the braided stuff with the rubber lining, like what you use for toilet connections (that's what most of my system uses because I was too lazy to bend all that copper) but I'm not sure where to find the non-rubbery stuff. That's what we're talking about, right? If so, That sounds like a good solution.I guess I could just buy a bunch and put it into a single-layer coil, no?
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 01:58:49 AM »
The other question about the braid is, what about channeling? Or should I RDWHAHB. I'll RDWHAHB. I found Denny's post about braids, seems that he just buys the hose I'm talking about and pulls the rubber out. I'll give that a shot. Just to confirm, this is the stuff, right?

http://www.castorama.fr/store/Flexible-double-Gripp--10-L-30-cm-PRDm514113.html?isSearchResult=true&navAction=jump
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 02:08:22 AM »
The one thing to watch out for with braided hoses these days is a number of "faux" steel braids that are really just plastic weave.
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Offline euge

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 02:23:23 AM »
Phil if you want a real braid and are not sure pm me.

I see why you want a false bottom. Otherwise a cooler would be a logical choice? Maybe someone there in France can fabricate a false bottom to your specs. Or in the States for that matter.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 02:29:02 AM »
The other question about the braid is, what about channeling? Or should I RDWHAHB. I'll RDWHAHB. I found Denny's post about braids, seems that he just buys the hose I'm talking about and pulls the rubber out. I'll give that a shot. Just to confirm, this is the stuff, right?

http://www.castorama.fr/store/Flexible-double-Gripp--10-L-30-cm-PRDm514113.html?isSearchResult=true&navAction=jump
Re: channeling, I assume you would batch sparge so RDWHAHB.

But keep in mind Drew's post, make sure it is actually stainless braid.  The link you posted looks right, but I don't read French. ;D
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 03:32:28 AM »
Phil if you want a real braid and are not sure pm me.

I see why you want a false bottom. Otherwise a cooler would be a logical choice? Maybe someone there in France can fabricate a false bottom to your specs. Or in the States for that matter.

The problem with coolers is that they are $$$$$$ for a big one. 50 qt coleman extreme = nearly 80 euros. Plus I already have the kettle, and the wife is starting to be annoyed at the number of packages we've been receiving lately. The last one topped 70 kilos... She carried it into the house by herself (I was at the office). Anyway.

I have a copper tube with holes drilled in it from a previous thing I tried to do - it's got a cap on one end and I can solder a connection to the other side - and I'll just wrap the whole thing in steel wool. This way I don't have to brave the crowds at the shopping center where the hardware shop is. Does that sound like it'll work?
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 03:34:39 AM »
The other question about the braid is, what about channeling? Or should I RDWHAHB. I'll RDWHAHB. I found Denny's post about braids, seems that he just buys the hose I'm talking about and pulls the rubber out. I'll give that a shot. Just to confirm, this is the stuff, right?

http://www.castorama.fr/store/Flexible-double-Gripp--10-L-30-cm-PRDm514113.html?isSearchResult=true&navAction=jump
Re: channeling, I assume you would batch sparge so RDWHAHB.

But keep in mind Drew's post, make sure it is actually stainless braid.  The link you posted looks right, but I don't read French. ;D

I never know batch versus fly sparge. What I do is this: get water to temp, dough in, start a recirc pump which goes back into the mash tun. I have a PID probe inserted into the tube pumping back into the mash tun and maintain my temp that way. I just keep recirculating the whole time. Is that batch sparging? I know, totally n00b question but I am never sure.
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 08:06:48 AM »
I never know batch versus fly sparge. What I do is this: get water to temp, dough in, start a recirc pump which goes back into the mash tun. I have a PID probe inserted into the tube pumping back into the mash tun and maintain my temp that way. I just keep recirculating the whole time. Is that batch sparging? I know, totally n00b question but I am never sure.

That sounds sorta like a RIMS mash system but the fly vs batch won't come into play until you're done mashing and are ready to draw off the wort.  If you redirect the output of your pump to your kettle while slowly adding fresh water to the mashtun, then that would be fly sparging.  If you redirect the output of your pump to your kettle and completely drain the mashtun (and then refill the mashtun, recirc, and drain again), then that would be batch sparging.
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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 09:32:27 AM »
That'd be great, but I have no idea where to get braided hose around here. I can find the braided stuff with the rubber lining, like what you use for toilet connections (that's what most of my system uses because I was too lazy to bend all that copper) but I'm not sure where to find the non-rubbery stuff. That's what we're talking about, right? If so, That sounds like a good solution.I guess I could just buy a bunch and put it into a single-layer coil, no?

That's the correct stuff.  Cut the ends off and push each end of the braid in towards the middle.  That will expand the braid allowing you to pull out the inner hose.
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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 09:33:26 AM »
I never know batch versus fly sparge. What I do is this: get water to temp, dough in, start a recirc pump which goes back into the mash tun. I have a PID probe inserted into the tube pumping back into the mash tun and maintain my temp that way. I just keep recirculating the whole time. Is that batch sparging? I know, totally n00b question but I am never sure.

This is batch sparging....

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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 09:51:11 AM »
That'd be great, but I have no idea where to get braided hose around here. I can find the braided stuff with the rubber lining, like what you use for toilet connections (that's what most of my system uses because I was too lazy to bend all that copper) but I'm not sure where to find the non-rubbery stuff. That's what we're talking about, right? If so, That sounds like a good solution.I guess I could just buy a bunch and put it into a single-layer coil, no?

That's the correct stuff.  Cut the ends off and push each end of the braid in towards the middle.  That will expand the braid allowing you to pull out the inner hose.

Oh! It's like a chinese finger trap.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 09:54:02 AM »
If you redirect the output of your pump to your kettle while slowly adding fresh water to the mashtun, then that would be fly sparging. 

Yup, that's what I do. I have an HLT with a spinning sparge arm to handle adding in the fresh water.
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Re: Copper manifold vs false bottom
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 09:54:25 AM »
Sounds like it's time for me to post pics of my brewing setup. I'll try to do that tonight.
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