Author Topic: Soon we can pack concealed  (Read 4807 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2011, 08:14:25 PM »
I pack everywhere I go. But can only fire 1 shot and takes 24 hours to reload.

I've heard of little blue pills that can help you with that.

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 11:30:51 PM »
There's no denying that where there is right to carry, violent crime goes down.
Yes there is.  There is no direct correlation either way between a right to carry and violent crime.  If you were right, the states with the loosest gun laws would have the least amount of violent crime, and that's just not the case.  Compare Rhode Island to Alaska in per capita violent crime.  If it was the opposite, the states with the strictest gun laws would have the least violent crime.  Compare Washington DC to South Dakota.  It just doesn't work, there's not a direct relationship.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2011, 01:18:16 AM »
I'm working on getting my hunting license here so I'll chime in since it applies to me. Before I get going, I want to say that at my dad's house we have an Enfield 308 from the Indian/Pakistani wars (with matching WWI bayonet!) , a Winchester 30-06 that's over 100 years old (octagonal barrel!), and a Colt 1911A1 .45 caliber handgun that belonged to my second cousin, who was a fighter pilot in Europe during WWII. We go out and shoot those things at the range and it's a LOT of fun. I think knowing how to strip, clean, reassemble and fire a gun accurately are very important skills. Having said that:

Concealed carry is a bit of a catch 22. The people that really want it probably shouldn't have it. There aren't any boogie men coming to kill your family in the night, at least no more than is statistically probable, and frankly the idea of having one or more random guys with guns standing around waiting to start a firefight at the slightest sign of a purse-snatching does not make me feel any safer. I've never been in a firefight but I have a friend in the Marines and I've heard that bullets do not always go where you want them to - and that's too much of a risk.

In France (like the rest of the EU) handguns, shotguns that are not side-by-side or over-under (meaning, you only have two shots before you have to reload) and rifles larger than 22 caliber are considered weapons of war and are absolutely illegal without any reservations (unless you're a cop or in the military and are on active duty, of course). The violent crime here is much, much, much lower than most of the US, so again, having the right to carry does not equal a reduced rate of crime. "If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is, while true in a strictly logical sense, is as it applies to rates of crime demonstrably false.

In my travels I've found that (perhaps contrary to popular belief in the states) most people in Europe like the US, and recognize them to still be innovators and a land of good people. There's none of that "they hate us for our freedom" stuff, at least not from reasonable people (every country has its crazies). But things like concealed carry get many a raise of the eyebrow. To many people here, things like that are a bit like pretending it's the wild west, with outlaws around every corner trying to hijack your stagecoach. Something for the TV, but in real life might indicate a bit of an imbalance.

Living in the European Union, where unlike the US, more than one country here has been invaded and occupied as recently as the last 60 years, you would think that, following the logic of needing militias, freedom to carry for 'defense,' etc, many countries would have the desire to keep the populace armed. But they don't. Seems to work out pretty well here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide-world.png
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 01:44:07 AM by phillamb168 »
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Offline pinnah

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2011, 05:09:09 AM »
things like that are a bit like pretending it's the wild west, with outlaws around every corner trying to hijack your stagecoach.

 :D Good stuff man.


I guess I am lucky,
and live in a place where I don't feel like I need any "protection".

Hell, I wouldn't even know where to start looking for the house keys.

I do, however, have a shotgun by the bed,
<squints eyes down to mean slits>
in case any more rouge varmits come looking for chicken dinner. :-X

Offline nicneufeld

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 06:28:22 AM »
Before I get going, I want to say that at my dad's house we have an Enfield 308 from the Indian/Pakistani wars (with matching WWI bayonet!)

303 you mean or is rechambered in 308?

Love them.  I have 3 No4s and 1 No1MkIII*.  Went to the National WWI Museum the other day (one of the few claims to fame in Kansas City) and they had a number of No1MkIII*s in the cases.  Of course, lots of more interesting and more rare weaponry as well!!! Neat museum for the history buff on an almost forgotten (in the States) war.

Offline phillamb168

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 06:47:42 AM »
Before I get going, I want to say that at my dad's house we have an Enfield 308 from the Indian/Pakistani wars (with matching WWI bayonet!)

303 you mean or is rechambered in 308?

Love them.  I have 3 No4s and 1 No1MkIII*.  Went to the National WWI Museum the other day (one of the few claims to fame in Kansas City) and they had a number of No1MkIII*s in the cases.  Of course, lots of more interesting and more rare weaponry as well!!! Neat museum for the history buff on an almost forgotten (in the States) war.

I think you're right. Wikipedia says Ishapore 2A/2A1. Also, the Winchester isn't a 30-06, it's a 30-30: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1894 it was made in 1896.
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Offline EHall

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 09:11:34 AM »
'and frankly the idea of having one or more random guys with guns standing around waiting to start a firefight at the slightest sign of a purse-snatching does not make me feel any safer.'

Thus the reason I think everyone who wants to carry should go thru a course... or more... anyone whos gone thru a course gets somewhat familiar with the local laws and if you're going to carry you should be familiar with them. Any jackass who pulls a gun on a purse snatcher and even thinks about taking a shot, especially if they're running away will be the one to goto jail and lose that priviledge to carry again...
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2011, 09:14:28 AM »
'and frankly the idea of having one or more random guys with guns standing around waiting to start a firefight at the slightest sign of a purse-snatching does not make me feel any safer.'

Thus the reason I think everyone who wants to carry should go thru a course... or more... anyone whos gone thru a course gets somewhat familiar with the local laws and if you're going to carry you should be familiar with them. Any jackass who pulls a gun on a purse snatcher and even thinks about taking a shot, especially if they're running away will be the one to goto jail and lose that priviledge to carry again...

For sure. If you have to allow carry permits (due to demographics/politics demanding it) then you should have to go through a whole bunch of hoops.
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Offline nicneufeld

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2011, 10:10:45 AM »

I think you're right. Wikipedia says Ishapore 2A/2A1.

No, you were right the first time!  An Ishapore 2A is a post-war Enfield rechambered for .308 or 7.62 NATO.  Would probably be easier to find ammo with one of those, just probably wouldn't want to fire anything overly hot in them.  I can't remember if its .308 or 7.62 NATO that can be loaded to higher pressures than the other.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2011, 10:35:42 AM »
Iowa passed a law like this last year and it's been huge in the news for months.  I have no problem with qualified people having what ever weapon they are inclined to buy (within reason, no one needs a high caliber full auto or Triple A or something). 

My issue with Iowa carry law is the lax requirements.  You can get a concealed carry license without having ever touched, much less qualified on the weapon.  You are required to take a 3 hour training course available in several formats, including web based.  I know people I wouldn't trust with empty cartridges much less an loaded weapon who are all excited about getting a license to carry.

Where the heck are we going?  And what's with this hand basket?

Offline weithman5

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2011, 10:52:57 AM »
i know people who aren't qualified to be parents and we let them do that.  you should see some of the harm these people cause to children.  just saying
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Offline richardt

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 11:01:29 AM »
i know people who aren't qualified to be parents and we let them do that.  you should see some of the harm these people cause to children.  just saying
Excellent point.

Offline EHall

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2011, 11:13:50 AM »
I agree, people should have to pass some kind of test or obstacle course... something very challenging before they can have kids...
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Offline Bret

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2011, 11:19:10 AM »
Hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself

--The great Lynyrd Skynrd


Been catching a few episodes of "Sons of Guns." When a couple comes into the gun shop for a handgun to use for home protection, the owner takes them on the range and shows them how most handgun confrontations occur: at very close range.  He then asks the question, "Are you prepared to take a life?"  The couple rethinks their purchase and leaves empty handed.  Point is, a handgun is a specific tool for a specific purpose, and owning/carrying one is a "yes" to the above question. LEOs and military are trained to shoot to kill for this reason.

Personally, I am on the fence with this.  Live in a rougher than most neighborhood with plenty of crime and occasionally ponder a Sig in the nightstand.  I just can't say yes to the question, so I stay on the fence.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: Soon we can pack concealed
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2011, 11:24:22 AM »
not leaning either way on this but the guy that did super size me has (Had?) a show called 30 days and one episode was an anti-gun activist who went to live with a very gun friendly family for 30 days. It's interesting. Her mind gets changed in the end and there is alot of good info. I come from VT where most people (don't know if that is statisticaly true) have a rifle and many people have hand guns. The folks with hunting weapons have usually gone thru a training course at some time and I generally feel pretty safe there although I don't wander in the woods during hunting season without dressing in blaze orange. It's a very sticky issue. The US constitution does say we are entitled to bear arms but it also says it is in order to maintain a well organized militia.

I used to have a bumper sticker that says 'I support the right to arm bears' that I loved. Have to find another one of those someday.

**EDIT** Bret good thoughts. Right on. that is the question you must ask yourself cause once you have the gun and you pull it out it might happen whether you are ready or not.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 11:31:18 AM by morticaixavier »
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