Author Topic: Saison yeast substitution tips  (Read 1380 times)

Offline jivetyrant

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Saison yeast substitution tips
« on: March 09, 2011, 08:01:10 PM »
I ordered some Wyeast 3711 French Saisonfrom my LHBS, but it seems that it will be a special order as their distributor does not have any in stock.  Bummer.  I have a good amount of dry yeast at home and even more available at my LBHS.  Are there any reasonable substitutes for this specialized yeast strain?  Halp!

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 09:20:50 PM »
I've had some good Saisons made with Ardennes.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline nateo

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 09:24:09 PM »
If you have to use a dry yeast, the only one remotely close would be T-58. But it's not nearly as attenuative as 3711. I recently made some beer with very similar gravities and grists, with 3711 and T-58. 3711 finished at 1.004, T-58 at 1.014. But, "saison" is sort of a catch-all category, and it can mean whatever you want, really.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 05:04:06 AM »
If you have to use a dry yeast, the only one remotely close would be T-58. But it's not nearly as attenuative as 3711. I recently made some beer with very similar gravities and grists, with 3711 and T-58. 3711 finished at 1.004, T-58 at 1.014. But, "saison" is sort of a catch-all category, and it can mean whatever you want, really.
I had a similar high finishing gravity using T-58 in a Tripel.  The half I fermented with 1388 finished at 1.010, but the T-58 stopped at 1.018, which is no longer a Tripel.
I really think that Saisons are pretty identifiable by the yeast and that if you don't use Saison yeast, you won't be making a Saison.  What you make may be really good no matter what, but you may want to call it something else.
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Offline jivetyrant

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 05:55:19 AM »
If you have to use a dry yeast, the only one remotely close would be T-58. But it's not nearly as attenuative as 3711. I recently made some beer with very similar gravities and grists, with 3711 and T-58. 3711 finished at 1.004, T-58 at 1.014. But, "saison" is sort of a catch-all category, and it can mean whatever you want, really.

That was my concern.  I have 2 or 3 packs of T-58 in the fridge but I have read that it's not very attenuative.  It seems to be unsuitable for higher OG recipes.  My OG is mid-range at 1.072, target FG of 1.015 using the Saison yeast.  It kills me that I might have to drive an hour to Cambridge for the right yeast, ugh.  Should have just ordered it online a week and a half ago when my LHBS said they might not be able to get the stuff.  Live and learn!

Offline Mark G

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 07:22:50 AM »
You'll make a decent beer with the T-58, but I'm pretty sure you'll be disappointed if you're expecting a saison out of it. If it were me, I'd wait until I had the right yeast.
Mark Gres

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 08:44:18 AM »
That was my concern.  I have 2 or 3 packs of T-58 in the fridge but I have read that it's not very attenuative.  It seems to be unsuitable for higher OG recipes.  My OG is mid-range at 1.072, target FG of 1.015 using the Saison yeast.  It kills me that I might have to drive an hour to Cambridge for the right yeast, ugh.  Should have just ordered it online a week and a half ago when my LHBS said they might not be able to get the stuff.  Live and learn!
1.015 seems pretty high as an FG for a saison.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 02:50:53 PM »
+1 - a saison should be dry to the bone - or at least close. And while I agree that a saison can be sorta a "catch all" - T-58 isn't going to really be the best yeast for a saison. You need something that is highly attenuative with a fruity and/or peppery and/or earthy and/or funky character to really be a saison.
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Offline jivetyrant

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Re: Saison yeast substitution tips
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 06:43:02 PM »
Ended up getting out of work earlier than expected so I zipped to another LHBS in Rhode Island to pick up some White Labs Saison. (WLP 565)  Snagged 2 vials, that should be sufficient.  Going to do a starter tonight with hopes of brewing on Sunday.  Thanks for the advice, folks!