Author Topic: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.  (Read 2650 times)

Offline oscarvan

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1707
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2011, 07:38:13 AM »
I fly a lot and I assume you get at least 1/2 of my ticket cost.  You're doing all the work, right?

I wish.... It's not bad, but that would be a lot more. Plus, I'm putting kids through school.... in one side, out the other.
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11688
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2011, 08:58:07 AM »
Where were all of you 4 hours ago?

How long should it take to cool a batch?  I boiled a pot of water and mine did the following:

0 min:  212F
5 min: 132F
10 min: 98F
15 min: 92F
20 min: 85F
25 min:  quit 5 minutes ago and opened a beer.

Obviously it cools rapidly at the start and the slows as it gets lower.  Not sure how long it would take to get to 70 degrees, probably 30+ minutes with me stirring frequently.



It's all about the delta, man.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2030
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2011, 09:01:43 AM »
I've also noticed that if you reduce the water pressure (partially turn off the tap) when you get to that 'stalling' point around 90F, you can still get the temp down fairly quickly.  I would guess that its because the cold water is in contact with the hot (warm) wort for a longer period, increasing the heat transfer efficiency.

I believe you are right.  I kept adjusting mine slower and slower by feeling the outlet line.  If it was coming out cold, I figured it wasn't in contact long enough to efficiently transfer the heat.  At the end, I think the tap was barely on.  I will have to try the ice bath that was mentioned.  Our water is pretty cold here year round although in the summer it will get a little warmer.

Offline Will's Swill

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • Secretly likes wine...
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2011, 05:36:10 PM »
This is a common misconception.  For a given setup, you're actually chilling more efficiently (i.e. less time to chill) when you're water is coming out colder, not when it is coming out warmer.  I know, seems backwards.  ??? But if your water is coming out colder then your chiller is colder all along its length and thus is cooling better.  As Denny said, it's all about delta.  I'm guessing you have eight "coils" of 1/2" copper (since you said you need a pipe bender), so something like 25' of copper?  Maybe 54F water this time of year?  If you run your water at, say, 3+ GPM, you can probably chill 5 gallons from 212F to 75F in 10 - 15 minutes without stirring. 

Are you using the kitchen faucet or a hose bib for your coolant water? Whatever you're using, crank it all the way open if you want to reduce chill time.  Reducing flow never helps chilling.
Is that a counter-pressure bottle filler in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2011, 06:47:21 PM »
Will,that is correct.  Sometimes the efficiency is rated on the amount of water used, and running wide open is not so efficient.  One should not confuse efficiency with the rate of chilling.

I you accelerate slowly and drive slowly, you will have higher fuel ecomony.  An internal combustion engine gets its best efficiency with the thottle wide open.  Sort of the opposite metrics, but the opperating conditions determine fast or cheap.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Will's Swill

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • Secretly likes wine...
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2011, 09:37:03 PM »
We may have to agree to disagree.  Efficiency of an engine can be defined such that "more efficiency" is "uses less fuel" or efficiency = distance traveled/volume fuel consumed.  An internal combustion engine is not at its most efficient when the throttle is wide open, though that is when it generates the most power.  You could perhaps define "more efficiency" as "faster" or efficiency = distance traveled/unit time, but most would call that "speed". ;)

If you're defining "more efficient" as "uses less water" or efficiency = heat removed from wort/volume water used, then the most efficient thing to do would be to let your wort air cool and forget the chiller.  :)  But if you're talking about heat transfer efficiency, which I think both Andy and gmac were, then "more efficient" is defined as "faster cooling" or efficiency = heat removed from wort/unit time (which is really "rate of heat transfer" I suppose).  "Heat transfer efficiency" would really be rate of heat transfer achieved/theoretical maximum, but why bother with the denominator?  But I think the water use definition is equally valid.

Sheesh, that was boring.  I need a homebrew.
Is that a counter-pressure bottle filler in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4547
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2011, 06:04:39 AM »
Efficiency is not always defined as one would think.

I was taught that for an IC engine it is power out(kW)/fuel in(expressed in kW).  Running wide open gives you the best effeciency.  Economy is another thing. Used to have to sit through meetings were the fuel ecomony guys would go over their engine maps, and go over transmission ratios to get operation in the "islands" of max. ecomony.

Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Will's Swill

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
  • Secretly likes wine...
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2011, 06:45:40 AM »
I agree.  You're obviously the car expert, but I thought that engines were typically designed to be most efficient (power/fuel) where it would push the vehicle it is designed for at highway speed (say 55 mph)?  As opposed to being most efficient at maximum fuel flow.

To keep this on topic, I certainly hope that beer never becomes a biofuel.  Might push the price of beer up!  At least the cheap megabrews would go first...
Is that a counter-pressure bottle filler in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Offline gmac

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2030
  • London, Ontario
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2011, 08:31:21 AM »
It always amazes me how these threads can meander across so many topics.   :D

For what it's worth, I'll run my chiller "wide open" as you all suggest next time.  Hoping to do a batch tomorrow so I'll see what time it takes.  Our tap water is 45 degrees F.

Offline zorch

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: How long does a batch take/Grinding grain.
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2011, 05:00:32 PM »
It always amazes me how these threads can meander across so many topics.   :D

For what it's worth, I'll run my chiller "wide open" as you all suggest next time.  Hoping to do a batch tomorrow so I'll see what time it takes.  Our tap water is 45 degrees F.

One word of caution - With my old (since replaced) chiller, if I ran it with my tap wide-open, the increased pressure would cause water to leak out where the tubing was clamped to the copper... right into the cooling wort.

Just something to keep in mind.