Author Topic: FINISH HIM!!!  (Read 3947 times)

Offline oscarvan

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 12:19:42 PM »
We don't have the whole story here..... it started months, if not years ago. The outcome is unfortunate for all involved.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 12:42:07 PM »
All I'm gonna say to the post here is:

Whatever, dude.


The thing I'm of mixed opinion is the startling amount of publicity being given to this and the possible negative impacts it could have. Seriously, if this had been the quiet sort of thing that happens day to day, I think this would have all blown over and life would proceed apace appropriately.

For what it's worth, I think the answer to violence is always more violence.  Always.  Occasionally violence is the solution to other problems, but usually that's when those problems involve the existing threat of violence and you're just taking a pre-emptive strike (punching someone in the face because you feel like it is NOT pre-emptive; staging an assault on the armed forces "peacefully" occupying your country is pre-emptive, you're starting the fight but this is appropriate).

Look at the American Revolution as a good example.  We had problems, so we told the British off.  They sent some soldiers here to force us at gunpoint to behave.  There was only ever one way out of this.

Casey could have talked his way out of the whole incident.  He could have gone and told a teacher, and got the kid in trouble.  Then the kid would be annoyed by his angry parents, and show up and beat the @^*& out of Casey.  This would be a sub-optimal outcome.

Instead he threw the kid down.  Harsh, but effective, and metered decently; I mean he didn't hospitalize the kid.  The next time he comes back to start something, he'll be several feet away waving his arms and shouting.  It's highly likely Casey will think this is ridiculous and take it as an obvious confirmation that they both know who's on the losing end of the next fight.

Problem solved.

We need more of this.  We need people that stand up for themselves and others.  Look at the kids standing around at the beginning of that video.  Why didn't they punch that dude first?  They simply removed themselves from the situation, just like people here spot a rapist down an alley and leave them alone to finish their brutal sexual assault on whatever girl they have gagged (yes, this happens here; we call this "civilized").

Every person that stands up for themselves is another reminder that you can't get away with that kind of crap.  The ones that just won't put up with you make you look ridiculous, so you find someone else to target so you can shift ridicule off yourself and claim some form of social leadership through mob rule.  When they start punching you in the face, though, you start not wanting to play this game anymore; worse, if somebody punches you in the face for being a dick to them, they're probably going to punch you in the face again when they catch you being a dick to somebody else.

We like to throw around words like "Civilized" and "Mature" when we talk about living in a society where we "recognize the need to abstain from violent behavior and solve our problems with calm, peaceful discussion."  This is similar to how early to mid teens tell college kids they're "very mature" when they're 13 and want to have sex (ask any school counselor, they'll have hundreds of these stories).  Violence is a vehicle of peace:  you carry a sword, but you don't use it unless you really have to, and only to the extent necessary to protect yourself and those around you.  Those who see violence as a tool of coercion made to get you what you want through brute force are extremely immature.

It's sad we've separated society into rabbits and wolves; even sadder that we think it's "civilized" to try to declaw the rabbits and tell the wolves to play nice.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2011, 12:52:53 PM »

The thing I'm of mixed opinion is the startling amount of publicity being given to this and the possible negative impacts it could have. Seriously, if this had been the quiet sort of thing that happens day to day, I think this would have all blown over and life would proceed apace appropriately.

For what it's worth, I think the answer to violence is always more violence.  Always.  Occasionally violence is the solution to other problems, but usually that's when those problems involve the existing threat of violence and you're just taking a pre-emptive strike (punching someone in the face because you feel like it is NOT pre-emptive; staging an assault on the armed forces "peacefully" occupying your country is pre-emptive, you're starting the fight but this is appropriate).

Look at the American Revolution as a good example.  We had problems, so we told the British off.  They sent some soldiers here to force us at gunpoint to behave.  There was only ever one way out of this.

Casey could have talked his way out of the whole incident.  He could have gone and told a teacher, and got the kid in trouble.  Then the kid would be annoyed by his angry parents, and show up and beat the @^*& out of Casey.  This would be a sub-optimal outcome.

Instead he threw the kid down.  Harsh, but effective, and metered decently; I mean he didn't hospitalize the kid.  The next time he comes back to start something, he'll be several feet away waving his arms and shouting.  It's highly likely Casey will think this is ridiculous and take it as an obvious confirmation that they both know who's on the losing end of the next fight.

Problem solved.

We need more of this.  We need people that stand up for themselves and others.  Look at the kids standing around at the beginning of that video.  Why didn't they punch that dude first?  They simply removed themselves from the situation, just like people here spot a rapist down an alley and leave them alone to finish their brutal sexual assault on whatever girl they have gagged (yes, this happens here; we call this "civilized").

Every person that stands up for themselves is another reminder that you can't get away with that kind of crap.  The ones that just won't put up with you make you look ridiculous, so you find someone else to target so you can shift ridicule off yourself and claim some form of social leadership through mob rule.  When they start punching you in the face, though, you start not wanting to play this game anymore; worse, if somebody punches you in the face for being a dick to them, they're probably going to punch you in the face again when they catch you being a dick to somebody else.

We like to throw around words like "Civilized" and "Mature" when we talk about living in a society where we "recognize the need to abstain from violent behavior and solve our problems with calm, peaceful discussion."  This is similar to how early to mid teens tell college kids they're "very mature" when they're 13 and want to have sex (ask any school counselor, they'll have hundreds of these stories).  Violence is a vehicle of peace:  you carry a sword, but you don't use it unless you really have to, and only to the extent necessary to protect yourself and those around you.  Those who see violence as a tool of coercion made to get you what you want through brute force are extremely immature.

It's sad we've separated society into rabbits and wolves; even sadder that we think it's "civilized" to try to declaw the rabbits and tell the wolves to play nice.

One of the dumbest posts ever. To be sure.

Offline nicneufeld

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2011, 12:59:59 PM »
I would be inclined to say there are some things in that post that aren't strictly incorrect and are somewhat defensible, but coming after that first paragraph they are somewhat nullified, so a more appropriate response might simply be:









Offline MrNate

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2011, 01:29:52 PM »
I would be inclined to say there are some things in that post that aren't strictly incorrect and are somewhat defensible, but coming after that first paragraph they are somewhat nullified, so a more appropriate response might simply be:










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Offline Tim McManus

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2011, 01:30:45 PM »

The thing I'm of mixed opinion is the startling amount of publicity being given to this and the possible negative impacts it could have. Seriously, if this had been the quiet sort of thing that happens day to day, I think this would have all blown over and life would proceed apace appropriately.

For what it's worth, I think the answer to violence is always more violence.  Always.  Occasionally violence is the solution to other problems, but usually that's when those problems involve the existing threat of violence and you're just taking a pre-emptive strike (punching someone in the face because you feel like it is NOT pre-emptive; staging an assault on the armed forces "peacefully" occupying your country is pre-emptive, you're starting the fight but this is appropriate).

Look at the American Revolution as a good example.  We had problems, so we told the British off.  They sent some soldiers here to force us at gunpoint to behave.  There was only ever one way out of this.

Casey could have talked his way out of the whole incident.  He could have gone and told a teacher, and got the kid in trouble.  Then the kid would be annoyed by his angry parents, and show up and beat the @^*& out of Casey.  This would be a sub-optimal outcome.

Instead he threw the kid down.  Harsh, but effective, and metered decently; I mean he didn't hospitalize the kid.  The next time he comes back to start something, he'll be several feet away waving his arms and shouting.  It's highly likely Casey will think this is ridiculous and take it as an obvious confirmation that they both know who's on the losing end of the next fight.

Problem solved.

We need more of this.  We need people that stand up for themselves and others.  Look at the kids standing around at the beginning of that video.  Why didn't they punch that dude first?  They simply removed themselves from the situation, just like people here spot a rapist down an alley and leave them alone to finish their brutal sexual assault on whatever girl they have gagged (yes, this happens here; we call this "civilized").

Every person that stands up for themselves is another reminder that you can't get away with that kind of crap.  The ones that just won't put up with you make you look ridiculous, so you find someone else to target so you can shift ridicule off yourself and claim some form of social leadership through mob rule.  When they start punching you in the face, though, you start not wanting to play this game anymore; worse, if somebody punches you in the face for being a dick to them, they're probably going to punch you in the face again when they catch you being a dick to somebody else.

We like to throw around words like "Civilized" and "Mature" when we talk about living in a society where we "recognize the need to abstain from violent behavior and solve our problems with calm, peaceful discussion."  This is similar to how early to mid teens tell college kids they're "very mature" when they're 13 and want to have sex (ask any school counselor, they'll have hundreds of these stories).  Violence is a vehicle of peace:  you carry a sword, but you don't use it unless you really have to, and only to the extent necessary to protect yourself and those around you.  Those who see violence as a tool of coercion made to get you what you want through brute force are extremely immature.

It's sad we've separated society into rabbits and wolves; even sadder that we think it's "civilized" to try to declaw the rabbits and tell the wolves to play nice.

I know there are two posts that don't agree with this, but outside the comfy confines of modern western nations, this is in fact true.

There are very, very few societies on this planet that wholly conduct themselves differently (Ifalik being one of the few examples I can come up with off the top of my head).  All countries that have nuclear weapons use them as a violent and massively destructive deterrent toward other countries.  Every country has a military.  Right now the US and its allies are attacking the latest world bully.  Unfortunately, we know diplomacy doesn't work.  A tyrant will always be a tyrant until they are stood up to, and they usually ascend to becoming a tyrant through violence.  The only act or language they understand is violence.  If someone else's violence bests theirs, they usually stop being a tyrant because they've lost that perceived power.  It's wrong.  It's upsetting.  It's unavoidable.  Many individuals think and act this way, and that's why the world isn't a safe place.

In regard to violence being a vehicle of peace:  This is a concept called a "Just War".  It has similar, but more expanded, thinking around it.  It discusses the use of violence to end violence and the conditions to evaluate prior to doing do.

It's unfortunate that after thousands of years of recorded history, technological advances, and the enlightenment of humanity we still cannot purge acts of violence from society.
Tim McManus
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2011, 01:43:03 PM »
Tom Schmidlin

Offline maxieboy

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2011, 01:56:12 PM »
I know there are two posts that don't agree with this, but outside the comfy confines of modern western nations, this is in fact true.

There are very, very few societies on this planet that wholly conduct themselves differently (Ifalik being one of the few examples I can come up with off the top of my head).  All countries that have nuclear weapons use them as a violent and massively destructive deterrent toward other countries.  Every country has a military.  Right now the US and its allies are attacking the latest world bully.  Unfortunately, we know diplomacy doesn't work.  A tyrant will always be a tyrant until they are stood up to, and they usually ascend to becoming a tyrant through violence.  The only act or language they understand is violence.  If someone else's violence bests theirs, they usually stop being a tyrant because they've lost that perceived power.  It's wrong.  It's upsetting.  It's unavoidable.  Many individuals think and act this way, and that's why the world isn't a safe place.

In regard to violence being a vehicle of peace:  This is a concept called a "Just War".  It has similar, but more expanded, thinking around it.  It discusses the use of violence to end violence and the conditions to evaluate prior to doing do.

It's unfortunate that after thousands of years of recorded history, technological advances, and the enlightenment of humanity we still cannot purge acts of violence from society.

Well said. Thanks.
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« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 02:01:31 PM by maxieboy »
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2011, 02:00:45 PM »
The thread derailers can only dream of having the stones to do what Casey did.
I think most if not all of the "thread derailers" have no issue with what Casey did, it is the glorification of violence that they object to.  Don't you dare show a bare female nipple on TV, but mutilation and dismemberment is A-OK!
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Offline majorvices

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2011, 02:15:50 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I have been known to stick up for myself in the past and I coach my son to consider striking back if he is struck. But to say that violence is always the solution to violence is simply absurd. I had a guy accost me on my honeymoon. I may or may not have been able to "take him", but I let him shove me around and I backed down. Getting into a fist fight on my honeymoon would have been a bad move. Especially if I had got my ass handed to me.

Offline majorvices

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2011, 02:21:20 PM »
BTW: I know BFI likes to talk about his martial arts experience. IME martial arts taught me enough confidence to not glorify violence. That said, I'm not saying the chubby kid in the video didn't do what he needed to do. I'm just saying that to say "violence is always the answer" is puerile.

Offline maxieboy

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2011, 02:33:24 PM »
The thread derailers can only dream of having the stones to do what Casey did.
I think most if not all of the "thread derailers" have no issue with what Casey did, it is the glorification of violence that they object to.  Don't you dare show a bare female nipple on TV, but mutilation and dismemberment is A-OK!

Crap. I thought I deleted that in time. I don't agree with glorifying violence either. I don't think the incident is being glorified, just widely disseminated in this age of instant worldwide information.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2011, 02:44:40 PM »
Crap. I thought I deleted that in time. I don't agree with glorifying violence either. I don't think the incident is being glorified, just widely disseminated in this age of instant worldwide information.
I'm fast ;D

It's is being glorified by some, not all, and not just this incident but violence in general.  People may not see it as glorification, but you can't control the message that people receive when they watch the video.  It's a shame that it came to that for Casey, but I don't fault him and I think he was unfairly suspended for the same length of time as the instigator.
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Offline tubercle

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2011, 02:51:51 PM »
 I don't care to see violence published like this either but, since it was I'm glad the big kid did the slam. I had rather see him do that to the source than later decide to shoot up a school because of past demons.


 Not saying right or wrong, but you come to SC and throw a punch you had better prepare to receive likewise. I prefer to walk away in every case because you and your threats mean nothing to me, but I refuse to be physically harmed. And I don't believe in tit-for-tat either. I believe in stopping a threat in the quickest, most efficient manner at my disposal.
 
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Offline gmac

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Re: FINISH HIM!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2011, 03:08:02 PM »
Apparently you all have seen this before, or a lot of you.  It was new to me.  All joking aside, here's the problem I have.

When the big kid slammed the little kid, did you notice how immediately an even bigger kid started to get into the fray?  And it took an even bigger one to scare that one off?  I really feel sorry for the bigger one (the one who did the slamming) because there were obviously more people around encouraging the little one.  I was bullied as a kid and it sucks.  My oldest son is a foot taller than anyone else in his class yet he's very sensitive and he gets bullied.  If he wanted to, he could probably do the same but he doesn't and I am fine with that.  Maybe some of you would teach your kid to stand up to it and fight back.  For me, I'm teaching mine that school is just one part of life and life goes on afterwards. There are other ways to win your battles.

I'm happy to see the little jerk get slammed.  Clearly he deserved it and he was definitely the aggressor (I had no doubt who the bully was immediately).  But more importantly, I hope the big kid knows that this crap will end one day.