Author Topic: Orange Blossom flowers  (Read 2470 times)

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8016
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Orange Blossom flowers
« on: March 27, 2011, 12:43:35 PM »
Anyone have a source? I have an orange tree in my solarium and when it blooms it smells simply terrific. I want to make a beer with them, but there's not enough blossoms to really experiment with.

I see Randy Mosher mentions them in "Radical Brewing" so I am obviously not the first to think of this. He mentions Middle Eastern Markets. I don't know that we have one in our area.
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline punatic

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4583
  • Puna District, Hawaii Island (UTC -10)
    • View Profile
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 01:31:12 PM »
I have tried very late addition citrus blossoms in mead - fermentation complete late.  I used citrus honey mead of varying degrees of sweetness.  I played around with the volume and type of flowers added too (orange, tangerine, grapefruit, lemon, and lime).  The result was a floral aroma somewhat different than what the blossoms smell like at their peak on the tree.  Try smelling a blossom on the tree that has gone past its peak.  It is simular to that.  The aroma fades pretty quickly with time in the bottle.

Making a blossom tincture with Everclear seemed to capture and transfer to the mead the fresh-blossom aroma, but that too faded pretty quickly in the bottle.

I did these trials about 10-11 years ago when I lived in Orlando.  I had 10 full grown citrus trees in my yard, and access to many more.  Mrs. Punatic, who loves mead, encouraged me mightily to keep trying.  We both love the scent of citrus blossoms.

Here in Hawaii I have coffee (and citrus too).  I've been eyeing the coffee blossoms.  They smell very much like citrus blossoms, and bloom at the same time.  Perhaps next year...  Every coffee blossom picked is a bean not roasted.  My trees are still youngish and enough blossoms to experiment with would make a noticable reduction in beans.
There is only one success: to be able to spend your life in your own way.


AHA Life Member #33907

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8016
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 01:42:05 PM »
Thats good info. FWIW it was for a low gravity saison and it would be consumed very young and fresh. I just can't find a source. Anywhere! ::)
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline gordonstrong

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1355
    • View Profile
    • BJCP
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 01:54:15 PM »
I haven't seen them before.  However, orange blossom honey does have a very strong aroma.  Have you tried adding some of that at knockout?  It will add some fermentables (similar to liquid malt extract).  You could also add it in the primary or secondary.  I sometimes use a pound of orange blossom honey in a pale ale for an extra floral/fruity note that isn't from hops.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline tumarkin

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
    • View Profile
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 02:17:13 PM »
another floral petal option that might be easier to source would be Hibiscus blossoms. they are used in Mexico to make a tea. they're called Jamaica - but pronounce in spanish with an ititial 'HA' sound, rather than like the caribbean country. very different than citrus blossoms but something I've thought about using in a saison before.

if nothing else, now I've got the lyrics of Jackson Browne's song "Jamaica Say You Will" running through my head. Thanks for that.... haven't thought of that song in years. Damn, he wrote a lot of great tunes.

Jamaica was the lovely one, I played her well
As we lay in the tall grass where the shadows fell
Hiding from the children so they would not tell
We would stay there 'till her sister rang the evening bell
Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8016
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 02:38:40 PM »
Well, a google search shows there apparently is a beer made with them commercially. Just can't find a source for the flowers. I will also look in to the hibiscus flowers, thanks.
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline gordonstrong

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1355
    • View Profile
    • BJCP
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 02:59:44 PM »
Maybe you should reach out to Patrick Rue at The Bruery.  Sounds like the kind of thing he'd use.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8016
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 03:08:43 PM »
Maybe you should reach out to Patrick Rue at The Bruery.  Sounds like the kind of thing he'd use.

Great suggestion - thanks!
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline punatic

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4583
  • Puna District, Hawaii Island (UTC -10)
    • View Profile
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 05:25:40 PM »
Citrus blossom honey (CBH) does have nice floral qualities when it's fresh.  I've found back-sweetening with CBH increases the floral nose of my CBH meads.

I've been mulling over the mystery of the disappearing citrus blossom aroma in my bottled meads.  I use raw honey and no-heat meadmaking.  Raw honey has enzymes in it that bees' guts use to invert nectar into honey.  I'm thinking that the active enzymes in the raw honey affects the volatile compounds that give the citrus blossoms their wonderful aroma.  Just a theory mind you...

Hybiscus flowers have very little to no aroma.  They are pretty, and may add flavor, but I don't think they will contribute much aroma-wise.  Again, just a theory;  I have not tried hybiscus flowers in my brewing or meadmaking.  I do have many varieties growing in my yard though.  Perhaps some experimentation is in order.  Hmmm....
There is only one success: to be able to spend your life in your own way.


AHA Life Member #33907

Offline mabrungard

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1448
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 06:01:36 PM »
Hey, don't forget that there is a product called Orange Water that has intense orange blossom aroma.  Those of you that attended the BJCP Judges dinner in Minneapolis last summer should remember that.  Very intense and pleasant aroma.  I could imagine that some of that added at kegging or bottling would impart the effect that this brewer wants.

Its available at middle eastern and indian food stores typically.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-Water/464551136933908

jaybeerman

  • Guest
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 06:31:54 PM »
Feeling rich? You could use neroli, the stuff that's distilled from flowers is about $400 an ounce but I imagine it wouldn't take much.

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 06:57:55 PM »
I would look into the suppliers that florists use. Some florists sell the flowers on a regular basis and might be able to direct you to a viable source.
Ron Price

Offline pyrite

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 09:31:57 PM »
Out here in Riverside CA, which is one of the major citrus producers in the U.S. the orange blossoms have not bloomed yet.  Usually the orange blossom bloom by March, but for what ever weather patterns they have not yet bloomed.  Darn, I still have a boat load of oranges on my 18 trees from last season. I suspect the orange blossoms will bloom in another 2 month or so.

Check out Hanger 24 brewery, they use local grown oranges from Redlands CA, in their beer.  They also brewed an aniversary IIPA with the addition of honey at secondary that gave a great clove floral aroma. You might have luck with their supplier.

http://www.hangar24brewery.com/co_orangewheat.htm

http://www.hangar24brewery.com/co_dipa.htm

 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 10:05:54 PM by pyrite »
If you don't get in over your head, how are you ever going to know how tall you are.

Offline gordonstrong

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1355
    • View Profile
    • BJCP
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 07:06:32 AM »
I have no idea how well this would work, but it should be cheap enough to find out.  Go to a decent grocery store and look in the section with spices, or in the section with cookie making supplies, and look for orange oil.  Very concentrated stuff.  I sometimes use cinnamon oil to tweak meads.  A little goes a really long way.  I'm guessing it's the same for orange oil, but I don't know what kind of orange character it produces.  You can test it on a small scale (in a glass) to see.  It should only cost a couple bucks, but the bottle is tiny -- thimble-sized. 
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline ryang

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • Indian Hills CO
    • View Profile
Re: Orange Blossom flowers
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 07:19:36 AM »
I have no idea how well this would work, but it should be cheap enough to find out.  Go to a decent grocery store and look in the section with spices, or in the section with cookie making supplies, and look for orange oil.  Very concentrated stuff.  I sometimes use cinnamon oil to tweak meads.  A little goes a really long way.  I'm guessing it's the same for orange oil, but I don't know what kind of orange character it produces.  You can test it on a small scale (in a glass) to see.  It should only cost a couple bucks, but the bottle is tiny -- thimble-sized. 

or Penzy's orange extract.  I've experimented putting drops into commercial wheat beers and my own belgian wit, but only in the glass.  Haven't tried putting it in say, at bottling.  Great aroma, not a ton of flavor, but you can definately tell it's there.  Again, a little goes a pretty long way.
Penzy's is very high quality stuff and am lucky to have a store so close by.

http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/p-penzeysorangeextract.html