Author Topic: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen  (Read 1583 times)

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1554
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« on: March 28, 2011, 12:31:41 AM »
I've always preferred to ferment in 6.5 glass carboys so I can see the action and I just prefer glass to plastic.  I also like to maximize my final product so i ferment a volume of 6.5+ gallons which generally results in significant blow off.  I've been reading lately and am becoming convinced that "blowing off" may compromise the finished libation of all the goodness originally intended. So, I'm considering doing some primary ferments in larger plastic buckets to avoid blow off.  With all the emphasis on avoiding oxygen contact post fermentation, I'm curious about methods folks use to avoid oxygenation when racking from a plastic bucket. Hope you all had a good weekend, I kegged my Billy Shakes Stout clone to make three in the keezer so far.  Brew on.
Thank you BEER!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11643
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 08:49:43 AM »
With all the emphasis on avoiding oxygen contact post fermentation, I'm curious about methods folks use to avoid oxygenation when racking from a plastic bucket.

I use buckets for fermentation pretty much 90% of the time and do nothing different in racking than I do for any other container.  I guess I don't understand why you'd need to.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1554
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 09:00:52 AM »
It just seems like I keep hearing/reading about folks emphasizing not allowing oxygen come into contact with fermented beer. For example; using dual port carboy lids and and using CO2 to force the beer into a keg or another carboy that has been 'filled' with CO2. 
I'm just wondering how one could take a similar preventative measure when primary fermenting in plastic buckets and then transferring to a carboy for secondary.
Thank you BEER!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11643
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 09:09:37 AM »
It just seems like I keep hearing/reading about folks emphasizing not allowing oxygen come into contact with fermented beer. For example; using dual port carboy lids and and using CO2 to force the beer into a keg or another carboy that has been 'filled' with CO2. 
I'm just wondering how one could take a similar preventative measure when primary fermenting in plastic buckets and then transferring to a carboy for secondary.

Ah, I see.  Personally, I think that's an overblown fear in that situation, so I simply ignore it!  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1554
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 09:15:49 AM »
Yeah, I think I'll take the relaxed and unworried approach when I do a plastic primary and just be careful not to splash around. 
Thank you BEER!

Offline tom

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1110
  • Denver, CO
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 11:15:38 AM »
  I've been reading lately and am becoming convinced that "blowing off" may compromise the finished libation of all the goodness originally intended.
I've never heard that. I have heard some suggest that blow-off improves the beer by getting rid of "bitter krauesen".
Brew on

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11643
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 11:26:23 AM »
He's from Oregon...we LIKE bitter here!   ;D
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1554
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 11:57:19 AM »
He's from Oregon...we LIKE bitter here!   ;D

Indeed! But even more than the bitter, I really like a pungent aroma and assertive hoppy flavor... and it's hard to beat a good hop burp. I mean if you need to burp it may as well be an essense of hop burp... no?

But to the point; a respectable brewer (IMHO) made the valid point (AFAIK) that no commercial breweries use the blow off tactic. Further, it makes senset to me that an aggressive blow off could easily take with it some of the best yeast in an ale batch as well as those most prized essential hop aromas and flovors.  All I know is my blowoff hose smells awesome.  ;D
Thank you BEER!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11643
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 12:09:39 PM »
But to the point; a respectable brewer (IMHO) made the valid point (AFAIK) that no commercial breweries use the blow off tactic.

Kai could speak to this better than I, but AFAIK blowing off braun hefe is pretty standard in German breweries.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4524
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 12:14:16 PM »
But to the point; a respectable brewer (IMHO) made the valid point (AFAIK) that no commercial breweries use the blow off tactic.

Kai could speak to this better than I, but AFAIK blowing off braun hefe is pretty standard in German breweries.

Many have more head space in the conical fermenters, and the Braunhefe sticks to the sides and top.  Have read that it is standard practice to skim off the Braunhefe in the German open fermenter breweries, and then harvest the clean yeast after that.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline johnf

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 12:31:53 PM »

But to the point; a respectable brewer (IMHO) made the valid point (AFAIK) that no commercial breweries use the blow off tactic.

That is a surprising conclusion to me as essentially every craft brewery I have toured has a scene like this:


Either I have stupendous luck in going to the few breweries that do blow off or we are disagreeing about whether or not attaching a hose to the top of the fermentor, placing the other end in a bucket/trashcan and allow excess krausen to escape via the tube is blowing off.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11643
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 12:34:49 PM »
+1 johnf.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1554
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 12:38:22 PM »
Well I stand happily corrected! thanks for the photo! I wasn't really excited about switching primary fermentation to plastic as I like to see what's going on in there. I really just got the plastic for dry hopping and bottling and we're doing kegs now as well.  Seemed like a reasonable point so that's why I put it out here to you all. I knew I would likely get better information. Thank you all again.  I flippin' love this place.
Thank you BEER!

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1554
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 12:43:19 PM »
Ha, I just noticed my ironic avatar.  That's the blowoff from a carafoamy batch last weekend!
Thank you BEER!

Offline Kirk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
  • Sparks, NV
    • View Profile
Re: plastic fermentation vessels and oxygen
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 12:48:43 PM »
This thread reminds me of a thought, but I don't want to change the subject, so I'll just take a cheap post  :), and start another thread.
Kirk Howell