Author Topic: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch  (Read 3311 times)

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 15078
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2011, 12:11:28 PM »
So does this mean that every company, no matter how small or large, has the ultimate goal of becoming (or being bought out by) Walmart, AB, or Microsoft?

Well, I obviously can't speak for _every_ company, but why would a company exist other than to make money?  Witness the current T Mobile/ATT deal.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline The Professor

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • "In the next life, you're on your own"
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 12:17:19 PM »
they called Goose Island "sell-outs".

Then they fail to understand it's a business, not a public service.  Sure, GI wants to make and sell the best beer possible, but the objective for them (or any other brewery) is to make money for the owners and stay in business.

Right. 
And if they (AB-InBev) managed to keep up the quality that brought attention to the Goose in the first place, it's not a big deal, nor is it a bad thing.  Putting aside the silly mega-tun (LOL) hatred of big brewers,  the fact is that AB's own line of craft products demonstrates that the capability is there to throw some support behind some better beers, even if they are just tiptoeing into the new reality that folks are looking for more flavor.

With reference to an earlier comment in the thread,  it seems to me that a 'good beer bar' that would stop carrying a good beer just because it is probably about to become considerably more maistream  just  seems hypocritical to me...like they are more interested in an elitist approach rather than one truly based on taste and quality.  Frankly, that's not the kind of 'good beer bar' that would get my support (or even qualify as a 'good beer bar' in my book).

I'm not an apologist or big fan of AB-InBev, but they've proven in recent years that they can make really good beers with some character.  If they do actually manage to "goose" the capacity and productivity of  their new acquisition,  while leaving GI/Fulton Street alone with regard to the things that make the beers the quality products that they are presently, then this deal  is not only  a win for the founders of the company (the $$$$ that represent the main reason one goes into business)  as well as for the consumer as a result of wider availability.

After complaining for years that the big brewers have no interest in better beer, it's  ironic to begrudge them now for responding to what people say they wanted in the first place. 
As far as HopCat's Facebook page calling Goose Island "sellouts"...well that's just too dumb to even bother responding to.
AL
New Brunswick, NJ
[499.6, 101.2] Apparent Rennerian
Homebrewer since July 1971

Offline BrewingRover

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 675
  • Brewing in Flossmoor, IL
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 12:31:02 PM »
Here's more on the story from Greg Hall:
http://timeoutchicago.com/restaurants-bars/13374729/greg-hall-talks-about-goose-island-and-anheuser-busch

It sounds like control of things will stay in Chicago, but time will tell.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1651
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 01:42:00 PM »
So does this mean that every company, no matter how small or large, has the ultimate goal of becoming (or being bought out by) Walmart, AB, or Microsoft?

Well, I obviously can't speak for _every_ company, but why would a company exist other than to make money?  Witness the current T Mobile/ATT deal.

I guess I'm trying to figure out the line between "making money" and "making more money".  Does every restaurant want to franchise?
Please do not reply if your[sic] an evil alien!
Thanks

Offline beersk

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2713
  • In the night!
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 01:54:31 PM »
So does this mean that every company, no matter how small or large, has the ultimate goal of becoming (or being bought out by) Walmart, AB, or Microsoft?

Well, I obviously can't speak for _every_ company, but why would a company exist other than to make money?  Witness the current T Mobile/ATT deal.

I guess I'm trying to figure out the line between "making money" and "making more money".  Does every restaurant want to franchise?
Good point and I think the answer is most likely no.  I think there are differing definitions of success involved here.  I don't think people own businesses solely to make money.  Money is a big part of it, yes, but they open business most often because they feel they have something to offer the market. 
Obviously, making money is a part of being successful.  But Goose Island was, in no way, failing as a company before.  I don't think they needed to "sell out" to A-B in order to stay afloat.  I think GI is good enough of a brewery with enough success that they could've expanded on their own.
But, I guess I'm in the dark about this...
None More Black!

Jesse

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6967
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2011, 02:05:24 PM »
Didn't mean to get you all riled up Professor.  That is the backlash to the news today, The HopCat is a very good beer bar that supports many of the local small brewers, some really small.  Have you ever been to a beer bar that does not carry BMC?  Some would like that stance, others would not.  This might be their position, and now no GI after they are part of AB.  I see it as the bar's business as to what is on tap, just as it is John Halls business to grow his business as he sees fit.  They can both do what they want, as they both are at the helm of their business.

I don't care one way or another.  I will drink a Spaten, a Leffe, or a Hoegaarden if the urge hits me.  We all know who owns those brand, though it would be bad to see those on tap a bar that did not carry GI due to the AB-Inbev ownership.



Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Norm!

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2011, 03:00:15 PM »
Beer is Beer.....If the taste and body we seek, is in the glass that is in our hand......then so shall we drink!!
 
Beer in various stages!

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8198
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2011, 03:24:33 PM »
The HopCat is a very good beer bar that supports many of the local small brewers, some really small.  Have you ever been to a beer bar that does not carry BMC?  Some would like that stance, others would not.  This might be their position, and now no GI after they are part of AB.  I see it as the bar's business as to what is on tap, just as it is John Halls business to grow his business as he sees fit.  They can both do what they want, as they both are at the helm of their business.
I think this is a really good point - you can't look at GI selling to AB and say "hey, they're just trying to make money" and then look at this bar Hop Cat and say "that's stupid" without knowing how their customers will react.  Each is trying to have a successful business, you either let people run their business the way they see fit or you don't.  GI chooses to sell to AB, that is a business decision.  Hop Cat chooses not to sell their beers anymore, also a business decision.  I'm sure the owner of Hop Cat is doing what they think their customers would appreciate with the ultimate goal of staying in business.

I also disagree that the main motivation for all people starting a business is to make money.  It has to be a goal in order for the business to be viable, but that's not the same thing.  Some people do it because they love it and aren't trying to dominate the market or get stinking rich or sell or franchise or anything like that.  I also don't really understand why calling them sell outs is a bad thing.  That is exactly what they're doing, pretty much by definition.  You can argue about whether it's a negative for them to sell out, but you can't say they're not doing it.

And Denny, your T-mobile/ATT example is a prime example of what is wrong with big businesses to begin with.  The bigger a company is the more sociopathic it behaves and things like making as much money as possible become the main (and often only) motivating factors.  I think that's bad for pretty much everyone except those running the company.  This is how you end up with massive corporations paying nothing in taxes.  One could complain that taxes on US businesses are too high, and maybe that's true for small businesses, but I'll bet they could be lowered for everyone if the multinational conglomerates actually paid them.

I had to delete the rest of this, it got too political.  But let me say that both T-mobile and ATT are in my area, and it's going to mean 3000 people locally lose their jobs.  Good for the shareholders and CEOs, bad for the employees and local economy.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8820
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2011, 04:43:35 PM »
It's like the story when the Walmarts came to town and put every mom and pop shop out of business...and for the record, I do shop at Walmart. It's sad to see the mom and pop shops forego their business and succumb to their ultimate fate from the powers to be but often times it's the path of least resistance. I'm not sure of the real reasoning behind this move but it all comes down to money in some way, shape or form.

InBev is in business to increase their sales and their margins. They are on the prowl at all times and this deal came through for them. Great for the guys upstairs and hopefully, for the fate of the craft beer lovers, great for the consumers far reaching.

GI on the other hand may have unloaded the business for an assortment of reasons of which we may really never know but I do believe the time was right for them to get out of a tough business. It's really sad to see another great American small business get swallowed up by the corporate giant but such is life.

As far as we are concerned, I think as long as InBev upholds it's end of the deal, this may be to our advantage in the sense that there will be some increased production and therefore wider distribution. Only time will tell.

I'm not sure of the real reasoning behind this but I'll bet money had something to do with it.  ;)
Ron Price

Offline The Professor

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 848
  • "In the next life, you're on your own"
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 04:54:48 PM »
All good points from Jeff, Norm, and Tom.
so...

Jeff...it doesn't take much to get me riled about a topic I love (beer).  ;D
I was lucky enough to have for a number of years (from 1988 to the late 90's) a local that carried no BMC whatsoever on the multiple taps they had  (in fact, they pretty much single handedly pioneered the concept in NJ back then). 
They were selective about that despite  catering to a mostly college crowd...I can't even count the times I saw groups turn around and leave because there was no Bud Lite on the taps). 
 I admired them for taking the brave path they took.  And to their credit, and thanks to a very forward thinking bar manager (Chris Demitri-R.I.P.---we hardly knew ye!) this hopping little place with great live music managed to turn a lot of comparatively new beer consumers into much more discerning ones. 

Norm...what can I say, but you're absolutely right.  I couldn't have said it better (and I certainly couldn't have said it more concisely).  :o

Tom...good, lucid points well made (as always). 
I was really just playing 'devil's advocate'  (again) to some degree and if HopCat is truly catering to what their customers want, so be it.  I think my snarky reaction to their attitude  (and the attitude of their customers by extension if they truly feel the same way) was just an expression of my  confusion.  Assuming the GI beer remains as good as it is now (and let's not dismiss the possibility that with an improved plant they might even add some better variants to their range), I still don't see why (in the big picture) GI should be punished for their success by an elitist attitude.  But hey...maybe I'm alone in feeling that way.  I'm ok with that.  In any case, there is SO much product out there these days that no one can carry all of it.  And in the end, I guess Goose Island won't suffer if one bar thinks they're no longer worthy.

It's all good.
And it is, after all, only beer.
AL
New Brunswick, NJ
[499.6, 101.2] Apparent Rennerian
Homebrewer since July 1971

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6967
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2011, 05:30:27 PM »
Yes, it is only beer.  Something we are passionate about, but it is just beer.

I really do think this is one of the first breweries to go down this path.  Some others will follow.  Some will remain in the family.  Some will go out of business.  New ones will start up.  It has all gone down before.

When I was at the Denver NHC, I saw $5 drafts of craft beer, and $8 longnecks of Bud go over he bar.  The bartender said "hey, it is the King of Beers".   The customers happily paid.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline Beer Monger

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
  • ---Michael Dieterle--------- ---Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
    • Beer Monger - Adventures In the Wonderful World of Beer.
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2011, 08:35:26 AM »
Was he upset?

Is this his way of saying what he thinks Goose Island beers will become now? 

WTF?

Greg Hall (Of Goose Island), admits to pissing in beer.

http://tinyurl.com/5skemh8
Beer Monger's Blog
Follow my Beer Monger page on Facebook!

Drink responsibly and stay safe out there.

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1651
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2011, 09:01:51 AM »
Assuming the GI beer remains as good as it is now (and let's not dismiss the possibility that with an improved plant they might even add some better variants to their range)

Brewmaster stepping down, lots of corporate influence on the products they choose to make... yeah, I'm optimistic that that things will stay the same or even improve  ::)

I'm sorry, but if you look at the history of AB-InBev acquisitions, it does not bode well for GI.
Please do not reply if your[sic] an evil alien!
Thanks

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 15078
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2011, 09:04:53 AM »
Was he upset?

Is this his way of saying what he thinks Goose Island beers will become now? 

WTF?

Greg Hall (Of Goose Island), admits to pissing in beer.

http://tinyurl.com/5skemh8


TOTALLY inexcusable!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1651
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Goose Island and Anheuser-Busch
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2011, 09:06:23 AM »
Was he upset?

Is this his way of saying what he thinks Goose Island beers will become now? 

WTF?

Greg Hall (Of Goose Island), admits to pissing in beer.

http://tinyurl.com/5skemh8


TOTALLY inexcusable!

Wow.  Do you think he's "pissed" (sorry) that the family decided to sell?
Please do not reply if your[sic] an evil alien!
Thanks