Author Topic: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?  (Read 6230 times)

Offline hokerer

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 06:32:48 AM »
For those that are doing a decoction on the wheat's, are you going single, double or , I shudder, triple?

I do just a single and when I do, I've been using Jeff Renner's method from a couple months back issue of Zymurgy that uses my pressure canner - no constant stirring required :)
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Offline gordonstrong

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 06:42:05 AM »
I've never used that technique but it really sounds interesting.
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Offline Kirk

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 06:53:54 AM »
For those that are doing a decoction on the wheat's, are you going single, double or , I shudder, triple?

I do a double, but I think the critical factor is to do at least one decoction prior to conversion.  The single post-conversion decoction doesn't have near the effect, IMO.
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Offline blatz

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 07:03:39 AM »
For those that are doing a decoction on the wheat's, are you going single, double or , I shudder, triple?

I do a double, but I think the critical factor is to do at least one decoction prior to conversion.  The single post-conversion decoction doesn't have near the effect, IMO.

so decoct from say a ferulic acid rest to sac rest? (if that's possible 111 to 150+ seems impossible).
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Offline hokerer

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 07:37:52 AM »
so decoct from say a ferulic acid rest to sac rest? (if that's possible 111 to 150+ seems impossible).

Not impossible, you just might have to also infuse some water.  That is, mash in somewhat thick, draw off and decoct a portion, and then, when you add the decotion back to the main mash also add as much boiling water as necessary to hit the next rest.  By mashing in thick, once you add the infusion water, you can still keep your water/grist ratio from getting too high.


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Offline Kirk

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 08:04:50 AM »
There are varieties of ways to get there.  Gordon, on his El Hefe, pulled the decoction at mash-in temp, ramped up to 150, then returned the decoction to get to 158.  That's only 8 degrees, and he hit the dextrin half of conversion, not the maltose half, but it's still better than just a mashout decoction.
I'm still experimenting, but usually I infuse from acid to protein, decoct to maltose, decoct again to dextrin, then direct heat to mashout.  By adding HLT water to the decoction kettle to prevent scorching, my mash gets thinner each time I return the decoctions, so that direct heating to mashout is not a problem, and it saves a little time.  But it all still takes a long time, no doubt about that.
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Offline Will's Swill

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2011, 08:44:35 AM »
Joe,

Were you referring to the pseudo-decoction article in Zymurgy?  I've been meaning to try that.  Do you like the results?
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Offline hokerer

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2011, 12:53:00 PM »
Joe,

Were you referring to the pseudo-decoction article in Zymurgy?  I've been meaning to try that.  Do you like the results?

Yes, that's the article to which I was referring.  So far, I've done a Hefe and a Dunkelweizen using that method.   Thought the Hefe turned out great and the Dunkelweizen, well, it's one of my entries in the NHC so I'm interesting in seeing the feedback.
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Offline bassriverbrewer

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2011, 09:39:49 AM »
I haven't done a wheat beer but with my german style Lagers I mash in at 140 deg pull a decoction to get to my intended temp of 150-158 deg depending on what i'm making.  The conversion at 140 is fairly slow and doesn't seem to affect the body too much.  I pull a thin decoction for mashout

Offline narvin

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2011, 03:23:02 PM »
For those that are doing a decoction on the wheat's, are you going single, double or , I shudder, triple?

I do a double, but I think the critical factor is to do at least one decoction prior to conversion.  The single post-conversion decoction doesn't have near the effect, IMO.

so decoct from say a ferulic acid rest to sac rest? (if that's possible 111 to 150+ seems impossible).

Very possible.  I've done the "Enhanced Double Decoction" from Kai's decoction wiki page for a Hefeweizen, which goes from 111 to 152 using a thick decoction.  It required maybe 50% of the grist to be pulled and boiled. 
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Offline Pi

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2011, 06:26:39 AM »
When I decoct I always get better results both in efficiency and mouthfeel/maltyness. I'm getting ready to do a Maibock and someone suggested doing a single decoction after the alpha conversion to get up to mashout. So dough in at131 for 20 min.; 30 min. at 148; 30 min. at 153, then decoct the thin part and return to mash/raise to 170.
Any suggestions?
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Offline Bret

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2011, 11:28:00 AM »
When I decoct I always get better results both in efficiency and mouthfeel/maltyness. I'm getting ready to do a Maibock and someone suggested doing a single decoction after the alpha conversion to get up to mashout. So dough in at131 for 20 min.; 30 min. at 148; 30 min. at 153, then decoct the thin part and return to mash/raise to 170.
Any suggestions?
I have done this for pilsener with good results--overshot my OG.  It is a bit more work though.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2011, 12:54:13 PM »
When I decoct I always get better results both in efficiency and mouthfeel/maltyness. I'm getting ready to do a Maibock and someone suggested doing a single decoction after the alpha conversion to get up to mashout. So dough in at131 for 20 min.; 30 min. at 148; 30 min. at 153, then decoct the thin part and return to mash/raise to 170.
Any suggestions?

I have become a fan of the Hochkurtz decoction - High short.
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing#Hochkurz_Double_Decoction

Or you can follow the single decoction schedule listed above on that page.
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Offline resto3

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2011, 05:02:27 PM »
My Recipe was as follows:

5.7# Pilsner
2.1# Malted Wheat
2.0# Raw Wheat
0.2# Munich Malt

0.3 oz Sorachi Ace (14.9 AA) 60 Min
0.4 oz Sorachi Ace (14.9 AA) 15 Min

WB-06 1/2 Gal Starter

Mashed at 104 at 2.0 qt/lb for 6.5 Min, infused with 4.5 qts of boiling water to raise to 122 for 25 Min, then pulled 2.6 Gal of thick mash and decoctioned at 145 for 15 Min then raised to 155 for 15 Min and then boil the decoction for 10 min, when reintroduced to main mash main mash stabolized at 145. Held main mash at 16 for 15 min and pulled 3.2 Gal of thick mash and raised to 156 for 15 min and then reaised slowly too a boil. Reintroduced the decoction to the main mash and it settled at 168 where it stayed for 15 Min. Sparged with 2.5 gal of 170 degree water really slowly about an hour.

After the boil chilled to 68 degrees and pitched 1/2 gal starter of WB-06.

Ended up with 5.5 Gal of wort at 1.056 (I was expecting 1.045)

This was my first time doing a Decoction Mash and it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I would do it again.

I usually use 1/2 tsp of Wyeast yeast nutrients btu forgott to add it. Also I did not use kettle finings like Irish Moss as I was trying to make that cloudy look a Hefe should have.

If fermenting stronly in my basement at 64 degrees.

I will do this again.  It tastes great!  I will enter this in a few competitions.

Richie


Offline Malticulous

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Re: How Necessary is Decoction Mashing in Wheat Beer?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2011, 06:31:26 AM »
For my lagers I dough in in around 145 and let it rest 30 minutes then pull all the thick mash. I bring it to a boil slowly with no rests. I add it back to hit around 158. You could skip the mash out or use an infusion. I pull most of the thin mash and boil it for a mash out. This is nice because even with a single decoction all the grain can be boiled.

For my last wheats I did triple decotions. The last three had poor head retention. I think it must be the protein rest but it's never been a problem before.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 06:36:36 AM by Malticulous »