Author Topic: 20 min mash  (Read 5867 times)

Offline denny

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2011, 08:10:57 AM »
I agree. 1.010 - 1.012 is perfect for me. Anything much above that seems too sweet.

You can combat sweetness with appropriate hopping.  For me, it's that the beer's too "thick" to be truly drinkable.
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Offline denny

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2011, 08:14:01 AM »
I have heard Bamforth say (words to the effect) that he doesn't really know what all affects 'mouthfeel' but that he knows it's not dextrins.

Has he explained what led him to that conclusion?
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Offline bluesman

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2011, 08:31:29 AM »
I agree. 1.010 - 1.012 is perfect for me. Anything much above that seems too sweet.

You can combat sweetness with appropriate hopping.  For me, it's that the beer's too "thick" to be truly drinkable.

Agreed. This is a good way to balance the beer. I like to increase my bittering addition to help offset this condition which at the end of the day will achieve more of a balance in the flavor and mouthfeel of the beer.
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Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2011, 09:09:14 AM »
I have heard Bamforth say (words to the effect) that he doesn't really know what all affects 'mouthfeel' but that he knows it's not dextrins.

Has he explained what led him to that conclusion?
I just listened to a 40 min interview during lunch that I thought was it...but it wasn't. :(  I'll keep looking.

There was thread about it on another Home Brew Type forum and one person pointed out that whisky has a fuller mouthfeel than many beers and has no dextrins at all.

Editted cuz there ain't no 'e' in real whisky.:)

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2011, 09:50:59 AM »
The also sparge and lauter for over an hour, all the while at mash temps.  To say they do a 20 min. mash isn't really accurate.

And probably mash in for over an hour too. On our biggest beer it takes 65 min to mash in and 80 min to vorlauf/sparge. The grain is in the tun for 2.5 hours with no "mash rest" at all.
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Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2011, 01:50:17 PM »
I have heard Bamforth say (words to the effect) that he doesn't really know what all affects 'mouthfeel' but that he knows it's not dextrins.

Has he explained what led him to that conclusion?
Found it, about 12 minutes in or so.
It's a Q&A session on Brew Strong, Jamil actually brings it up and Charlie agrees.  My 'words to the effect' aren't very close but the message is still the same.

Offline denny

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2011, 02:55:41 PM »
Thanks.  I'll listen as soon as I have a chance.
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Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2011, 03:51:39 PM »
Thanks.  I'll listen as soon as I have a chance.
I was listening to it as I drove home and got the time wrong, better to tune in @ ~8:30. :)

EDIT: Bamforth doesn't know 'dreaded' Fahrenheit, 65* C is 149* F (not 144* F). I dunno Celcius but I knew that 144* sounded wrong.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 03:59:43 PM by SpanishCastleAle »

Offline malzig

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2011, 03:53:57 AM »
I agree. 1.010 - 1.012 is perfect for me. Anything much above that seems too sweet.
You can combat sweetness with appropriate hopping.  For me, it's that the beer's too "thick" to be truly drinkable.
You can balance an overly sweet beer with more bitterness (or roast!), but the effect is different than drying a beer out.  I find the dry beer more pleasant and drinkable.  I enjoy a really chewy, thick beer, occasionally, but most heavy-bodied beers are also sweet and I hate finishing a beer and having my mouth covered in sticky-sweet sugar.
I have the opposite problem, my beers dry out a bit too much sometimes and I always have to mash higher than what a recipe might dictate to hit the same FG (yes, they're calibrated :)).  By mashing higher I don't really get more sweetness.  I often don't get fuller mouthfeel either.
What so you consider too dry?
I definitely believe I get a higher FG at higher mash temperatures.  If you don't, you may need to check your thermometers.  Another way that I've found effective for adding body is certain adjuncts, particularly Torrified Wheat and Oats.

Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2011, 04:48:28 AM »
What so you consider too dry?
I definitely believe I get a higher FG at higher mash temperatures.  If you don't, you may need to check your thermometers.  Another way that I've found effective for adding body is certain adjuncts, particularly Torrified Wheat and Oats.
I do get a higher FG from mashing higher.  But if recipe says mash @ 152* F and gives a FG then I'll generally have to mash higher to hit that FG from the same OG.  I tried to premptively answer the 'thermometers calibrated?' question when I wrote 'yes, they're calibrated' (fwiw, with a NIST-certified/calibration-verified mercury thermometer at mash temps).  I agree that those are good grains for adding body, flaked barley and rye work too.

I've also considered some sort of contamination (and I still haven't ruled that out) but once the beer hits FG it doesn't drop any more nor does the post-fermentation pH (which is almost always between 4.2 and 4.5, measured with a meter).

Offline malzig

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2011, 06:10:55 AM »
I do get a higher FG from mashing higher.  But if recipe says mash @ 152* F and gives a FG then I'll generally have to mash higher to hit that FG from the same OG.
I do find it odd that your FG would increase but you wouldn't get more body with a higher mash temperature.

As far as the specific mash temperature and it's effect on FG, that's going to vary from brewery to brewery because of other variations in procedure.  I often find that I have to mash lower to get the same FG as some other brewers I've worked with, but I don't consider that a problem, just a fact that I account for in my process.

Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2011, 04:32:09 AM »
I do get a higher FG from mashing higher.  But if recipe says mash @ 152* F and gives a FG then I'll generally have to mash higher to hit that FG from the same OG.
I do find it odd that your FG would increase but you wouldn't get more body with a higher mash temperature.

As far as the specific mash temperature and it's effect on FG, that's going to vary from brewery to brewery because of other variations in procedure.  I often find that I have to mash lower to get the same FG as some other brewers I've worked with, but I don't consider that a problem, just a fact that I account for in my process.
I have had some experiences that agreed with what they mentioned in that Brew Strong episode.  That is, two identically brewed beers (same batch, split between two fermenters) and each pitched with different yeast.  The beer that finished with a lower FG had more mouthfeel and more sweetness than the one with the higher FG.  Their point in that discussion was that mashing higher does not necessarily yield more sweetness or mouthfeel.

Then there is the point about whisky, which has a lot more alcohol (which has a lower SG than water) and has no dextrins yet can have more mouthfeel than some beers.