Author Topic: 20 min mash  (Read 5554 times)

Offline tygo

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2622
  • Sterling, VA
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2011, 08:41:53 AM »
What level of apparent attenuation are you usually looking for in your beers Denny?
Clint
Wort Hogs

Fermenting: Wit
On Tap: Lucifer's Hammer Golden Strong Ale, Dopplebock, Old Fuzzynut's Ale

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13475
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2011, 09:06:56 AM »
What level of apparent attenuation are you usually looking for in your beers Denny?

Good question, and I'm gonna have to approximate an answer since I guess I never think of it like that.  I'd say in general I like to get 80ish %.  Of course, that can vary with the style and recipe, but when I'm making an alt or APA (for instance) that's what I'm shooting for.  And of course, it ALL varies with personal preference.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1364
  • Rebelling against cheap swill since 2005
    • View Profile
    • Bauhaus Brew Labs
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2011, 09:35:42 AM »
I understand that most domestic craft brewers do super-short mashes. Why don't we (homebrewers)? Anyone tried this? Any reason not to? Do you have to greatly adjust mash temp?

The also sparge and lauter for over an hour, all the while at mash temps.  To say they do a 20 min. mash isn't really accurate.

This is what I was going to say. While commercial breweries may only mash for 20 minutes, conversion is still taking place during vorlauf and sparging.
Matt Schwandt | Minneapolis, MN
AHA Member

Partial-Mash Pictorial
All-Grain Pictorial

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2011, 09:36:25 AM »
Somewhat related. There are alot of factors to consider when manipiulating body and mouthfeel.

The one thing that I tend to look at first is the mash parameters like time and temp. There are also other considerations as well like mash pH, hopping rate, carbonation level, grist bill (use of specialty malts) and yeast AA%.

With all of these variables it can seem overwhelming but really it's just a matter of tweaking each variable to achieve your desired outcome. Playing with the variables, one at a time, is the best way to really understand the cause and effect of the variable at hand.
Ron Price

Offline gordonstrong

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1355
    • View Profile
    • BJCP
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2011, 09:54:12 AM »
If I'm trying to tweak body and mouthfeel, mash time is one of the last knobs that I'd turn.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline Bret

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2011, 10:00:20 AM »
If I'm trying to tweak body and mouthfeel, mash time is one of the last knobs that I'd turn.
What would the first knob be?
Member #: 900000767

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2011, 10:03:19 AM »
If I'm trying to tweak body and mouthfeel, mash time is one of the last knobs that I'd turn.

I agree Gordon. I really should have left out mash time as a "tuning knob" and focused on mash temp as my primary target for body and mouthfeel adjustments.
Ron Price

Offline gordonstrong

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1355
    • View Profile
    • BJCP
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2011, 10:10:29 AM »
If I'm trying to tweak body and mouthfeel, mash time is one of the last knobs that I'd turn.
What would the first knob be?

Either mash temperature/program or grist composition. They're about equal to me.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline Bret

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2011, 10:17:58 AM »
I was thinking temperature too.  Early on I learned the acronym MALT = More Alcohol Lower Temperature.
Member #: 900000767

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13475
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2011, 10:28:55 AM »
If I'm trying to tweak body and mouthfeel, mash time is one of the last knobs that I'd turn.
What would the first knob be?

Either mash temperature/program or grist composition. They're about equal to me.

I agree with you, Gordon.  But if I do those and still can't get what I'm going for, mash time is another tool to use.  But it's the last tool I reach for.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline dmtaylor

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1291
  • Two Rivers, WI
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2011, 12:31:58 PM »
If I'm trying to tweak body and mouthfeel, mash time is one of the last knobs that I'd turn.

I would agree with this.  It's a variable that can be toyed with, but it is certainly one of the most variable variables, if that makes sense!
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline malzig

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2011, 04:16:41 AM »
dry out the beer unnecessarily
I guess I really question if it's unnecessary.  One of the problems I find again and again in homebrews is a too dextrinous beer that lacks crispness and drinkability.  JMO.
I find this, too, including in my own beers, early on.  I'm curious what you think of as drying out a beer "unnecessarily", dmtaylor.

These days, I try to get most of my beers down to 2.5°P/1.010, more like 2 °P for something like an Alt or a lager.  I find that I'm rarely content with a beer that finishes over 3 °P.  Occasionally, I'll make a Porter or Oatmeal Stout that's I'll design to finish higher, if I happen to be in the mood.

ccarlson

  • Guest
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2011, 04:25:07 AM »
dry out the beer unnecessarily
I guess I really question if it's unnecessary.  One of the problems I find again and again in homebrews is a too dextrinous beer that lacks crispness and drinkability.  JMO.
I find this, too, including in my own beers, early on.  I'm curious what you think of as drying out a beer "unnecessarily", dmtaylor.

These days, I try to get most of my beers down to 2.5°P/1.010, more like 2 °P for something like an Alt or a lager.  I find that I'm rarely content with a beer that finishes over 3 °P.  Occasionally, I'll make a Porter or Oatmeal Stout that's I'll design to finish higher, if I happen to be in the mood.

I agree. 1.010 - 1.012 is perfect for me. Anything much above that seems too sweet.

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2011, 04:40:49 AM »
Termial gravity is dependent on alot of factors like yeast strain AA%, OG, mash temp, grist bill (unfermentables), fermentation health and some other related factors. Session beers are best in the 1.008-1.012 range whereas bigger beers can finish higher around 1.016-1.028 range and higher depending on OG and AA%.

I like most af my lagers (Helles,Ofest,etc...) to finish in the 1.010+/- range.
Ron Price

Offline SpanishCastleAle

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
    • View Profile
Re: 20 min mash
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2011, 05:36:07 AM »
I have the opposite problem, my beers dry out a bit too much sometimes and I always have to mash higher than what a recipe might dictate to hit the same FG (yes, they're calibrated :)).  By mashing higher I don't really get more sweetness.  I often don't get fuller mouthfeel either.

I have heard Bamforth say (words to the effect) that he doesn't really know what all affects 'mouthfeel' but that he knows it's not dextrins.