[weazletoe]

 I certainly understand how you feel, and to some extent, I feel the same way. But, think of it this way....the more who get into the hobby, the more homebrew shops open up. The more homebrew shops open up, the cost go down for each to stay competitive.
  Also, if I do chose to tell someone that I homebrew, and their only experience is with something even worse than homebrew swill, what will they think of me and my beer, no matter how hard I try and tell them other wise? Of course, a sample would help, but sometimes it's just feasible. Some times, I even get to thinking that Mr. Beer does our hobby more harm than good. I have a buddy in Idaho who used it for a couple batches, and just totally gave up on homebrew, because it was so awful. Well, fast forward a few years....I now have my 12 gallon system in his garage to do my brewing. Man is he gonna be shocked when I tap that first keg next week, and finds out what real homebrew taste like. Point is, if he never met me, he would be turned off homebrew for life. And to me, that just sucks. 

[ccarlson]

And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed. At least one of them.

As for more home brew shops opening, that means little to me. I do group, bulk buys for just about everything and a few more hobbyists aren't going to make our suppliers drop their prices. Don't get me wrong, I do see your point and it may apply to more people like yourself, just not me.

[gmac]

What is a Brew Your Own place? A Canadian brew-pub?

Euge,
I think Weazletoe summed it up fairly well.  Picture a place with a half dozen brew kettles.  You add your water, dump in a bit of malt extract and a lot of corn syrup and some hops.  Boil it and cool it and then you get to pitch the yeast so you can say you made beer.  It's sort of like being a father in the delivery room.  They let you cut the cord so you can say you helped but you really didn't do a hell of a lot.

[bluesman]

I went into a local BYO place today because I was told that I might be able to order grain from them.  Turns out they were very willing to order grain for me from their supplier when they order LME and specialty grains so that was positive. Gotta wait a bit but at least I will get 25kg bags of 2-row without the 2 hour drive I was doing before.

But, we got talking about beer, brewing etc and I was so sadly  disappointed to see what they considered a "Recipe".  Basically, every recipe they showed me was:
X lbs LME
X time 2 glucose.
Probably 1/3 LME and 2/3 corn sugar in all of their recipes. They also only used dry yeast and all of the beer was fermented at 68 degrees regardless of whether it was a lager or an ale.  Just so sad.

Agreed...It's amazing that with all of the information available on the internet, in books, magazines and through LHBC's and LHBS's  that folks would entertain such an idea. I understand the convenience factor to a point but if the beer quality is poor then why even pursue it.  I can only imagine the beer quality to be pretty nasty.

...but perhars it's different strokes for different folks.

[denny]

Denny - might not be the same place, Canada is a fair size but you never know.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised if cash is the driving factor over quality. 

The people I talked with (who by the way did all their fermentations at 68!) were definitely interested in quality, but as a means to keep the customers happy and their business going.  You really can't fault them.  They bought a business.

[weazletoe]

And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed. At least one of them.

As for more home brew shops opening, that means little to me. I do group, bulk buys for just about everything and a few more hobbyists aren't going to make our suppliers drop their prices. Don't get me wrong, I do see your point and it may apply to more people like yourself, just not me.

Yeah, we both have good points for our particular situation. I guess that's why they say opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink. 

[punatic]

Wow!  Who knew BOPs could make people so philosophical, ay?      

[Kit B]

The local one in my area seems to have bottle sanitation problems that they can't seem to overcome.
Beer comes out of the fermenter just fine.
After being in the bottle for a couple weeks, it's funky & gushing.
Several of my buddies got together & went there.
Their 1st attempt gave these results, so they were given a free session.
The 2nd results were the same.
So, they never went back.

But, some folks think the place is great.
Vine Park

[tonyp]

And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed.

Funnily enough, i brewed with some friends for a few years, moved and forgot about it and 12 yrs later a Mr Beer got me back into brewing...Now i have more equipment than room to store it, and i'm loving every minute of it!

Tony

[tonyp]

To keep this on topic, here in south jersey we have a really great BoP place which is also my closest LHBS.  Everyone is friendly, professional and extremely knowledgable. I've never used the BoP but I looked over the equipment and recipes and it seems like a damn good time for a few friends to spend the day doing it.

The Brewer's Apprentice

Cheers!
Tony

[tygo]

And I feel the opposite. I owe everything to Mr. Beer for getting me into this hobby. Had I not been given a kit, I most likely would have never tried brewing. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed. At least one of them.

Yep, same here.  My wife bought me a Mr. Beer Kit for my birthday several years ago.  In retrospect, knowing what she does now, I think she would have probably bought me a watch 

[corkybstewart]

There's a place in Albuquerque who shall remain un-named that offers BoP and sell their own beers at their brewpub.  My daughter had her 21st birthday there but we left after about 3 or 4 beers because they all tasted the same.  Literally their Belgian blonde tasted just like the ESB and whatever the other beer we had.  My daughter grew up drinking quality beer and she was pretty disgusted(and drunk) but she never went back there.
IIRC the cost was around $85 per 5 gallons of 5.5% ABV beer with your own bottles, more if you "rented" theirs, and I have no idea if that was extract or AG.  It might have been a great way to spend an afternoon with friends, but so is hanging out in my garage brewing 10 gallons of quality beer for $40.

[bluesman]

It might have been a great way to spend an afternoon with friends, but so is hanging out in my garage brewing 10 gallons of quality beer for $40.

This is my sentiment exactly.  

I quess my beef with this stems from the quality aspect. I love the idea of promoting homebrewing but to sacrifice quality in an effort to sustain business goes against the very principles by which we stand for.

[tonyp]

I love the idea of promoting homebrewing but to sacrifice quality in an effort to sustain business goes against the very principles by which we stand for.

So say we all!

[gmac]

I'm not saying you couldn't make a decent beer at a BYO or BOP or whatever you prefer but I am saying you can't make a decent beer when 2/3 of the fermentables are glucose syrup.  I guess I was just expecting someone in that business to be a bit more "into" it.  I know it's a business and I should have mentioned that this was the owner, not an employee or anything.  I'm happy that I can get pale malt there despite the fact she had to check the catalog to see what "2-row" was.

I'm on a couple committees and one of our members wanted to go to one of these places to make beer for a fundraiser we were having and I was pretty much against it.  They did it anyway and they had lots left over.  Couldn't even fool the Coors Light drinkers into thinking it was good. 

I often tell people that if I was lost in a scorching, dusty desert, walking with nothing to drink for 3 days and I came upon a Coors Light I'd be very happy...because by then I'd need to wash my feet.