Author Topic: First no-sparge batch  (Read 1522 times)

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7396
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
First no-sparge batch
« on: April 18, 2011, 10:53:32 AM »
Last night did my first no-sparge mash. Usually I'm a dyed in the wool batch-sparger but decided to change my approach just to see.

Doughed in #14.8 2-row @153F with 1.5qt/# in 70qt CE tun. Mashed out after 60 minutes. Lauter took 15 minutes.

Ended up with 8 gallons preboil and 6.5 post boil with a FG of 1.055 which leaves me at 65.3% efficiency. I had planned on closer to 55% so while I'm pleased at the good eff, taking my Kolsch out of style range is a little irritating. RDWHAHB :D

According to J. Palmer this produces "...a smoother, richer-tasting wort at the expense of efficiency."

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 11:04:54 AM »
What is your normal efficiency euge?
Tom Schmidlin

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7396
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 11:19:19 AM »
What is your normal efficiency euge?

Batch-sparging depending on which tun... usually fluctuates between 74 and 78%. The 8qt tun hits 72% consistently when maxed out, but the 70qt does much better. Just depends on how much grain is in there.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 11:31:58 AM »
Ah, so you did get a loss in efficiency, just not as much as anticipated.  Cool, let us know how the beer turns out.  Do you plan to dilute it a bit?
Tom Schmidlin

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7396
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2011, 11:39:01 AM »
Thought about that, but chose not to. It would mean another half gallon in the fermenter which wouldn't leave me with much head-space at all. I do have a bottle of anti-foam handy...
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8755
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 11:39:50 AM »
You could also use your second runnings for canned or frozen starter wort. Some additional use for the remaining wort.
Ron Price

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 02:26:30 PM »
I've been doing this, even mashing aith 3-3.5qt/lb for a no-sparge with no addition of water at the end.  I've been getting close to 75% efficiency this way.  I'm sparging after this to get a bit for the next starter.

I can believe 65% for a larger grist, I'm using about 10lb of grain for a 5gal batch.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline maxieboy

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1155
  • Mid MI
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 06:25:44 PM »
Speaking of no sparge, I passed up a 120 qt. Coleman "5 day"(new designation for Extreme? same drain channel, spigot sits a little higher) at Wallyworld; $52... Must resist... If I do it, this puppy's getting plumbed up w/ a 3/4" copper manifold and 3/4" SS b/v... Yowza!
A dog can show you more honest affection with a flick of his tail than a man can gather through a lifetime of handshakes." Gene Hill

[47.7, 310.8] AR

AHA Member

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7396
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 06:49:28 PM »
I've been doing this, even mashing aith 3-3.5qt/lb for a no-sparge with no addition of water at the end.  I've been getting close to 75% efficiency this way.  I'm sparging after this to get a bit for the next starter.

I can believe 65% for a larger grist, I'm using about 10lb of grain for a 5gal batch.

If 75% is possible that would be awesome.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline hokerer

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2634
  • Manassas, VA
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 07:35:41 PM »
120 qt. Coleman "5 day"(new designation for Extreme? same drain channel, spigot sits a little higher)

The 36qt Xtreme that I've had for several years now has always had the "5 day cooler" designation on it so the name's not new.
Joe

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 05:33:44 AM »
If 75% is possible that would be awesome.

I think its very possible.  First, you have to get a pretty good conversion, lets say 90%.  Then your no-sparge mash ratio (or after you add more water) has to be enough to give you back 83% of your total liquid.  83% x 90% = 74.7%.

The 90% conversion is simple enough to do with a decent length mash time and proper pH and ions.

A mash ratio of 3qt/lb means you'll leave behind 0.5qt/lb as bound water (=0.125gal/lb) so you get 2.5/3qt or 83%, exactly what you need to get your 75%.  This assumes little to no dead space in the tun.

The 3qt/lb works fine for an "average" beer of around 1.050 made from 10lb of malt.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline euge

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 7396
  • Estilo Casero
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 10:18:58 AM »
Thanks Lennie. Mashing 3-3.5qt/pound doesn't have any adverse affects? I've gone as high as 2 before. though 1.6 is my norm.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline tomsawyer

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1694
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 01:29:06 PM »
I've done four of these 3+qt/lb mashes now and I don't see any problems with conversion.  It might take a little longer, although I haven't really "raced" two batches side by side so I can't say for sure.  It certainly makes it easy to step mash when you have this much water at your disposal.  I've done one of those, the rest being single infusions.

My hope is that the extra water and soak time helps extract more flavor from the grain while the starch is converting.  even if is no different though, its a pretty simple way to go.  Not that a sparge is some big hairy deal, mind you, but this way you just heat water once and go with it.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline resto3

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 09:18:06 AM »
One way to increase efficiency could be by performing a mash out.  By adding additional hot water to reach mash out temps and letting it sit 10 to 20 minutes.  I found that with my system (recently converted back to fly sparging) every time I do a mash out I get much better yield.  The higher temps makes the sugar far less viscous IMHO.  I would also think allowing to drain slower so that the grain bed remain as much in suspension as long as possible will allow for a better lauter.   Rice hulls also would assist as well.  Rice hulls mixed well throughout the grain bed will again IMHO make it porous and allow the wort to flow easier throughout your whole grain bed and reduce channeling. 

I haven't done a no sparge but if I did I would do this to improve the efficiency as much as possible. 

My $0.02.

Cheers,

Richie

Offline malzig

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
    • View Profile
Re: First no-sparge batch
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2011, 04:02:01 AM »
One way to increase efficiency could be by performing a mash out.  By adding additional hot water to reach mash out temps and letting it sit 10 to 20 minutes.  I found that with my system (recently converted back to fly sparging) every time I do a mash out I get much better yield.  The higher temps makes the sugar far less viscous IMHO.  I would also think allowing to drain slower so that the grain bed remain as much in suspension as long as possible will allow for a better lauter. 
I can't speak to whether viscosity makes a difference in high OG beers, but a mashout and slow lauter should make no difference if the mash is completely converted.  A "mash out" may bump enzyme activity briefly (though a targeted rest at 158-160°F might be more effective) and a slow lauter may allow more time for conversion.  So those might increase efficiency, in some cases, but probably not for the reasons usually given.