Author Topic: What Has Happened to Education?  (Read 3784 times)

Offline a10t2

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2011, 07:54:38 PM »
How do you feel about run-on sentences?

Me? I find them annoying, but I don't actually see them used all that often. I think most people understand conjunctions more or less intuitively.
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Offline punatic

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Offline phillamb168

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2011, 01:25:23 AM »
I think, at least in the newspaper example, what you're seeing is the devalution of proper editing. Publishers used to have editors that actually read and digested a writer's output, providing corrections and suggestions. These days that's just too expensive.

blah.
After reading this morning's newspaper, I'm convinced that the "editors" are minimum-wage employees who have been trained to click on "spell-check" and "grammar-check."

My dad happens to be Managing Editor here: http://thecabin.net/ He's been an editor for most of his career. While he and I both understand that mistakes like the ones you guys have mentioned are intolerable, they do occasionally slip through. From a newspaper perspective this has less to do with lack of aptitude or education and more to do with the demands of keeping up with a 24-hour news cycle and trying to meet publishing deadlines.

My mother was an English teacher. My wife has a Masters' in Linguistics. You could say I've gotten it from all sides, but I still make grammatical mistakes. I've noticed that the rapid transfer of information has become more important lately than the clear transfer of information. I think this is the reason we see so many mistakes.
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Offline alikocho

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2011, 01:37:12 AM »
I think, at least in the newspaper example, what you're seeing is the devalution of proper editing. Publishers used to have editors that actually read and digested a writer's output, providing corrections and suggestions. These days that's just too expensive.

blah.
After reading this morning's newspaper, I'm convinced that the "editors" are minimum-wage employees who have been trained to click on "spell-check" and "grammar-check."



I've noticed that the rapid transfer of information has become more important lately than the clear transfer of information. I think this is the reason we see so many mistakes.

I think speed is an issue, but it isn't necessarily deleterious to grammar. I have Russian academic colleagues who point to consistent literacy levels in Russia, but the development of new sub-languages with their own grammar for things like text messaging. Russian may be an unusual case, and it already had sub-languages for other things such as cursing.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2011, 01:52:01 AM »
I think, at least in the newspaper example, what you're seeing is the devalution of proper editing. Publishers used to have editors that actually read and digested a writer's output, providing corrections and suggestions. These days that's just too expensive.

blah.
After reading this morning's newspaper, I'm convinced that the "editors" are minimum-wage employees who have been trained to click on "spell-check" and "grammar-check."



I've noticed that the rapid transfer of information has become more important lately than the clear transfer of information. I think this is the reason we see so many mistakes.

I think speed is an issue, but it isn't necessarily deleterious to grammar. I have Russian academic colleagues who point to consistent literacy levels in Russia, but the development of new sub-languages with their own grammar for things like text messaging. Russian may be an unusual case, and it already had sub-languages for other things such as cursing.


IANAL (I am not a linguist) but I wouldn't be surprised if this was due to the syntax and usage differences between slavic- and germanic-based languages.
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Offline alikocho

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2011, 02:08:43 AM »
I think, at least in the newspaper example, what you're seeing is the devalution of proper editing. Publishers used to have editors that actually read and digested a writer's output, providing corrections and suggestions. These days that's just too expensive.

blah.
After reading this morning's newspaper, I'm convinced that the "editors" are minimum-wage employees who have been trained to click on "spell-check" and "grammar-check."



I've noticed that the rapid transfer of information has become more important lately than the clear transfer of information. I think this is the reason we see so many mistakes.

I think speed is an issue, but it isn't necessarily deleterious to grammar. I have Russian academic colleagues who point to consistent literacy levels in Russia, but the development of new sub-languages with their own grammar for things like text messaging. Russian may be an unusual case, and it already had sub-languages for other things such as cursing.


IANAL (I am not a linguist) but I wouldn't be surprised if this was due to the syntax and usage differences between slavic- and germanic-based languages.

You're quite likely correct here, and I suspect that the phonetic nature of Russian also helps with spelling. With a few exceptions, a word is spelled exactly as it sounds in Russian.
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Offline punatic

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2011, 05:48:24 AM »

Russian may be an unusual case, and it already had sub-languages for other things such as cursing.


When I worked at the power plant I worked with a group of guys who had been I&C technicians onboard US Navy subs.  These guys told me that they cursed in plain ole English on their subs.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2011, 05:52:12 AM »

When I worked at the power plant I worked with a group of guys who had been I&C technicians onboard US Navy subs.  These guys told me that they cursed in plain ole English on their subs.

as a former sub driver f##k ya
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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2011, 06:17:03 AM »
Its not just lacal papers either.  I have subscribed to Newsweek for 20 years.  For the past 5 years I have watched more and more simple mistakes creep into the articles.  Since the rag has been sold to The Daily Beast they may as well just admit they have no editors at all.  My 11 year old was reading an article last week and pointing out mistakes.  Now, I admit that my children are exceptional, even in Lake Wobegon, but the lack of attention to details is getting rather redicules.

On top of everything else, I was a solid D student in English and find errors in everthing I read anymore, especially ebooks.

Sorry, I need to stop ranting.

Paul

** Edited because I can't type either.


redicules = ridiculous

This has to be one of the funniest threads to ever hit this forum.  ;D

Offline punatic

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2011, 12:23:16 AM »

When I worked at the power plant I worked with a group of guys who had been I&C technicians onboard US Navy subs.  These guys told me that they cursed in plain ole English on their subs.

as a former sub driver f##k ya

One of my power plant mates and former "sub dude" is visiting from the mainland.  He served on a SSBN.  We are enjoying homebrew, looking up at an amazing sky full of stars (the Southern Cross is up there as big as life) and talking story. 

About his time on the boat he says,  "100 sailors go out.  50 couples return."

You guys...   ::)

BTW his wife is dancing in the Merrie Monarch Festival hula competition.  (aka the Olympics of Hula)
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Offline rabid_dingo

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2011, 12:35:59 AM »
Ok, only because this thread warrants it.

CANDIDATE FOR A PULLET SURPRISE

I have a spelling checker.
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot sea.

Eye ran this poem threw it,
Your sure reel glad two no.
Its vary polished inn it's weigh.
My checker tolled me sew.

A checker is a bless sing,
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when aye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore a veiling checkers
Hour spelling mite decline,
And if we're lacks oar have a laps,
We wood bee maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
Their are know faults with in my cite,
Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does knot phase me,
It does knot bring a tier.
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With wrapped words fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should bee proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaws are knot aloud.

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too pleas.

By Jerrold H. Zar
Graduate School
Northern Illinois University
June 1992
Ruben * Colorado :)

Offline punatic

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2011, 12:46:29 AM »
I copied and pasted you're poem into Word 2007.  It red squiglied cheque and Mr. Zar's last name.

It blue squiglied quite a bit more.

Knot bad four 1992!
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2011, 08:18:25 AM »
Ruben...that is egg salad!

Thanks Punatic now that conjunction junction diddy will be stuck in my head
another 30 years....It was just beginning to disappear.  It must be those wonderful
diminished cord harmonies .....on an ascending scale....catchy jazzy NICE.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 08:38:38 AM by 1vertical »
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Offline dean

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2011, 06:17:57 AM »
I think, at least in the newspaper example, what you're seeing is the devalution of proper editing. Publishers used to have editors that actually read and digested a writer's output, providing corrections and suggestions. These days that's just too expensive.

blah.

I agree... I mean what business can actually afford people that are actually trained to perform within a given career field these days?   ::)   Why hire a real technician when you can get a fresh body off the street and teach it to perform "their way rather than the correct way"?   ;)  Come-on.... how many times have we all heard, "this is how WE do it here".   ::)  And that is regardless of job profession.  IMO... most businesses today are operated by people having the same mentality as slum lords... buy it cheap, run the hell out of it while spending the absolute least amount of money and help to make it operate at a temporarily high efficiency... sell it when it begins to wain and largely needs an overhaul or complete rebuild (or tear down).   ::)


Well... with that said, I think maybe McDonald's is hiring... I've got a degree in HVAC/R... I guess that qualifies me to work around hot stoves and surfaces etc?  Doh! 

Offline tumarkin

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Re: What Has Happened to Education?
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2011, 06:22:05 AM »

Well... with that said, I think maybe McDonald's is hiring... I've got a degree in HVAC/R... I guess that qualifies me to work around hot stoves and surfaces etc?  Doh!  

Uh uh, Dean, that means you're overqualified, and probably less trainable to do it "their way." Sorry, guy.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 11:04:28 PM by dbeechum »
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