Author Topic: cirrhosis  (Read 3447 times)

ccarlson

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2011, 10:47:25 AM »
I actually worry less about the one or two self-made homebrews I might have in an evening than I do when judging some of the entries in the beer competitions. 

I do wonder at times whether the fusels in uncontrolled (i.e., too high) temp fermenation beers and specialty, smoked, and wood-aged beers might be dangerous to my health.  Really--doesn't anyone else who is a BJCP judge ever wonder if, one day, you might be sampling or drinking a stranger's beer that, knowingly or unknowingly, is chock full of potential carcinogens, which may or may not even be detectable by aroma, appearance, taste, mouthfeel, etc.?




That's a very good reason to be concerned as a judge. There could be chemicals, fusels and who knows what else in a beginner's beer or an "experienced" brewer's beer that got "unexpectedly" bad scores during the last competition.

Offline weithman5

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2011, 11:00:08 AM »
although these things might be present and of some concern. i doubt that the load is significant compared to the alcohol outright. i would be more concerned about someone doing something deliberate to a beer or doing something that would lead to food poisoning.  (bad infected beer etc).FWIW, i have never had a patient who had a colon cancer or something similar from eating to much burnt beef from their grill. 
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Offline malzig

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2011, 07:06:16 PM »
...something that would lead to food poisoning.  (bad infected beer etc).
Doesn't happen.  Remember, beer was what everyone drank, young and old, all day long, in the days when the water wasn't safe to drink.

Offline richardt

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 05:48:24 AM »
I agree that "infected beers" can be downright nasty, but they won't kill ya.

I was thinking more along the lines of someone doing something malicious or really stupid (e.g., "Hey, I bet I could make a gruit out of {XXXXXXXX} flowers, leaves, and/or wood/bark").  Even appropriate substances, when taken to extremes have given me pause as to the maturity and intent of the individual entering the beer/mead.  I've tasted a jalepeno pilsner--delicious and refreshing; and the pepper wasn't too overpowering.  But, I've also judged a mead made with chipolte and serrano peppers that was a weapon of mass destruction (liquid fire) and basically devitalized my tastebuds for the rest of the day.  A sip was all it took.  One could not drink an ounce or two, let alone a whole bottle of it.  Afterwards the excuse was that the entrant had not sampled the mead prior to submitting it for competition but thought my comments on the judging form were hilarious.   ???Really???  Had I travelled out of town and paid for a hotel room to judge this mead in the competition, at a minimum, I think I would have sent this clown a bill for wasting my time and getting cheap sociopathic thrills off of hurting random individuals who had the misfortune of having to judge his entry.

Offline Kit B

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2011, 11:13:03 AM »
I agree that "infected beers" can be downright nasty, but they won't kill ya.

I was thinking more along the lines of someone doing something malicious or really stupid (e.g., "Hey, I bet I could make a gruit out of {XXXXXXXX} flowers, leaves, and/or wood/bark").  

I was just reading & reacting to a post on another forum where someone said the following:

"I made up a batch of no rinse sanitizing solution (water and vinegar and bleach). When I was done sanitizing I filled up some bottles I was planning on using later. A couple of weeks later I see in the bottom of the bottles what looks like rust flakes. Anybody else seen iron condense in their water?"

Hmmmm...What about that concoction says "No-Rinse"!?
Please, Please, PLEASE...Don't anyone try stupid crap like this!!!
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2011, 11:33:31 AM »
"I made up a batch of no rinse sanitizing solution (water and vinegar and bleach). When I was done sanitizing I filled up some bottles I was planning on using later. A couple of weeks later I see in the bottom of the bottles what looks like rust flakes. Anybody else seen iron condense in their water?"

Hmmmm...What about that concoction says "No-Rinse"!?
Please, Please, PLEASE...Don't anyone try stupid crap like this!!!
In proper proportions, that is a no-rinse sanitizer solution.  I believe the proportion is 1 oz of bleach and 1 oz of vinegar in 5 gallons of water.  That is already a very dilute solution, and the amount of solution left clinging to the surface of a bottle, carboy, or keg, will be diluted even further by the product being added to it.  You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but some people do with great success.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2011, 11:43:21 AM »
maybe it wasn't used as a no rinse, maybe he just forgot to empty the bottles.
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ccarlson

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2011, 11:45:41 AM »
"I made up a batch of no rinse sanitizing solution (water and vinegar and bleach). When I was done sanitizing I filled up some bottles I was planning on using later. A couple of weeks later I see in the bottom of the bottles what looks like rust flakes. Anybody else seen iron condense in their water?"

Hmmmm...What about that concoction says "No-Rinse"!?
Please, Please, PLEASE...Don't anyone try stupid crap like this!!!
In proper proportions, that is a no-rinse sanitizer solution.  I believe the proportion is 1 oz of bleach and 1 oz of vinegar in 5 gallons of water.  That is already a very dilute solution, and the amount of solution left clinging to the surface of a bottle, carboy, or keg, will be diluted even further by the product being added to it.  You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but some people do with great success.

DO NOT mix full strength bleach and vinegar. Chlorine gas is released. This is very dangerous!!! It can be done, but only in a diluted solution.

Offline Kit B

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2011, 11:50:56 AM »
In proper proportions, that is a no-rinse sanitizer solution.  I believe the proportion is 1 oz of bleach and 1 oz of vinegar in 5 gallons of water.  That is already a very dilute solution, and the amount of solution left clinging to the surface of a bottle, carboy, or keg, will be diluted even further by the product being added to it.  You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but some people do with great success.

I guess I'm just not as trusting that the user is/was aware of correct proportions.
Personally...I'll stick to Starsan.
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ccarlson

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2011, 11:53:06 AM »
A lot of people have no idea what kid of deadly concoctions can be mixed up with just household chemicals. Do your research before trying this.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 12:00:49 PM »
In proper proportions, that is a no-rinse sanitizer solution.  I believe the proportion is 1 oz of bleach and 1 oz of vinegar in 5 gallons of water.  That is already a very dilute solution, and the amount of solution left clinging to the surface of a bottle, carboy, or keg, will be diluted even further by the product being added to it.  You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but some people do with great success.

DO NOT mix full strength bleach and vinegar. Chlorine gas is released. This is very dangerous!!! It can be done, but only in a diluted solution.
Yes, you add the bleach or vinegar to the water, mix, then add the other.  If you are using the same measuring device, rinse in between.  Seriously!

With the 6% bleach that is common, you end up with 93ppm in the solution.  Seattle drinking water typically has about 1 ppm.  If you dump your carboy and let it drain it will have less than 1 ounce of solution left in it, probably more like a teaspoon.  Add 5 gallons of beer and the new concentration is likely to be less than 100 ppb, and only 25 ppb if there's a tsp left, that's parts per billion.  Much less than if you used straight tap water to make your beer.

I guess I'm just not as trusting that the user is/was aware of correct proportions.
Personally...I'll stick to Starsan.
Fair enough.  I use starsan too. :)
Tom Schmidlin

beveragebob

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2011, 12:47:38 PM »
If you consume cannabis, there are canaboid receptors on damaged cirrhotic liver tissue that actually reverses the damage and scarring. I'll poke around for the actual medical study and post it when I have more time

Offline denny

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2011, 12:49:17 PM »
If you consume cannabis, there are canaboid receptors on damaged cirrhotic liver tissue that actually reverses the damage and scarring. I'll poke around for the actual medical study and post it when I have more time

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 12:56:02 PM »
If you consume cannabis, there are canaboid receptors on damaged cirrhotic liver tissue that actually reverses the damage and scarring. I'll poke around for the actual medical study and post it when I have more time
So you're saying there is some evidence that if you drink heavily you can protect yourself by also smoking weed?  No wonder so many of the brewers around here toke . . . ;D
Tom Schmidlin

Offline Kit B

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 01:00:36 PM »
...Just when I thought I'd never go back to it...Geez!
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