Author Topic: cirrhosis  (Read 4404 times)

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2011, 03:57:00 PM »
If you consume cannabis, there are canaboid receptors on damaged cirrhotic liver tissue that actually reverses the damage and scarring. I'll poke around for the actual medical study and post it when I have more time

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Offline Titanium Brewing

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2011, 04:53:05 PM »
If you consume cannabis, there are canaboid receptors on damaged cirrhotic liver tissue that actually reverses the damage and scarring. I'll poke around for the actual medical study and post it when I have more time

WOOHOOO!!!!

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beveragebob

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2011, 05:39:15 PM »
Here's the link. Maybe our good Dr. here can clarify some of the more esoteric info into laymans terms.

DOH! Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15841466
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 05:50:11 PM by beveragebob »

Offline maxieboy

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2011, 05:47:24 PM »
Here's the link. Maybe our good Dr. here can clarify some of the more esoteric info into laymans terms.

I'm so stoned, I can't see a link...  8)
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Offline abraxas

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2011, 07:53:43 PM »
Polyenylphosphatidylcholine always looked promising.  I know I drink enough to put myself into a higher risk category,might be smart to look into some preventative healthcare.

Offline euge

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2011, 08:01:18 PM »
So it introduces cell death in fibrous hepatic tissue. Hopefully the liver will then regenerate with healthy functioning tissue? Probably not if alcohol is still being consumed.

And does it have to be eaten or can cannaboids be introduced via other routes?
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Offline weithman5

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2011, 08:23:04 PM »
It is always a little difficult for simple doc like me to follow these types of abstracts but don't get your hopes up yet. First note in the abstract it talks about endogenous levels being higher in fibrosis. To me this implies a naturally occurring respond that the body is using to try to induce apoptosis to fight off fibrosis cells. Who knows yet but another study may show they enhance fibrosis at low levels. I don't know that this cannaboid is necessarily found in a particular recreational plant. And at what levels methods would it be therapeutic. Will have to wait and see.I have had more patients with lymphoma from pot as well, but many cancer regimens have risk profiles. Here is to a glimmer of hope and to researchers brainier than i
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beveragebob

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2011, 08:26:39 PM »
I remember having a discussion with a co worker that is always researching this because he has a bad liver due to alcohol and some infection he got a few years back and I seem to remember him saying intravenous of a liquid derivative was best. Apparently the half-life and absorption via the digestive tract was quite limited. Smoking is an option but, then you got the whole lung cancer risk from that. He showed me a site where you can get the pure liquid and it was like 800 for a small amount of injectable liquid. I guess you'd have to be a millionaire to go that route. Research continues.  

Offline amish electrician

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2011, 10:01:31 PM »
Hold on everyone, put down your blunts, fattys, joints, water pipes, knife hits, vaporizers, apples, soda cans, or whatever else you are using to administer yourself the devil weed....

Translated from science nerd to normal person: the article basically says that there is a molecule that your body makes normally, called AEA that binds to your cannabinoid receptors (of course THC also binds to these).  It doesn't look like weed has this molecule in any significant amount as far as I can tell in 2 minutes of googling.

So what AEA does then according to the paper, is that in huge concentrations for a neurotransmitter (same family as serotonin or dopamine), it appears to kill fibrotic liver cells (HSCs) in a petri dish.  Stopping right here, this means that they can kill these HSCs if they give enough AEA... if you read my thing about Tylenol you'll remember toxicity is all about dose.  And what works in the lab doesn't always work in people.  I remember back years ago there would be papers almost every week talking about things that killed HIV in culture... well yeah, bleach will too, but you aren't going to give that to people.  But anyway...

The real bad news for those of you craving Funyuns and Mountain Dew is that they showed that they were unable to block cell death after blocking the cannabinoid receptors.  This means that cell death is not happening dependent on AEA binding to those cannabinoid receptors.  So, although THC also binds to those receptors, it would likely also not have any effect on the HSCs in that way.  However, if you can see the light through all that red-eye squinting, it looks like AEA works through binding to cholesterol on HSCs, but whether weed would also do this and have an effect was not studied, although it is certainly possible.  But I'd wager you'd have to do some serious work with the 7 foot bong to get enough concentration to have any effects....

beveragebob

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2011, 12:24:08 AM »
I've gleaned from other papers that if there are receptors in your body for things,  that your body actually produces them. I read that if you do a certain type of running(I forget what it's called...basically sprinting for x amount of seconds and jogging and repeating) that some of the endorphins produced in the brain are the AEA substance. Also, dark chocolate has trace amounts of the substance also.

Offline abraxas

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2011, 04:41:05 AM »
Also don't forget about coffee:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1476147

"Cousin" Dry Hopped Coffee Stout anybody?

Offline kgs

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2011, 04:54:11 AM »
Back to the OP, I'd like to be enjoying beer for a few more decades, and want to take it easy on my liver and also not put on the pounds (which would strain other organs, including my pocketbook).

Bottling, and bottle size, are two methods I use for moderation. Portion control is easier when I can visually count the alcohol/calories. I've had friends comment that once they started kegging, the beer somehow vanished more quickly, like that Easter candy I can't remember eating. I also bottle part of most batches, unless they are very low-gravity, in 187 ml splits. I'm a small person, and a wine glass of beer is often the right portion. (I may want more, but that doesn't mean I GET more.) I'm going to get another case or two of splits because I'm realizing I drink them first (and also because I'm putting up a barleywine I hope to use for holiday gifts).

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Offline phillamb168

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2011, 05:59:15 AM »
I keg, but to keep a reasonable serving size I limit myself to these 25cl ikea glasses I got. One per day, unless it's a weekend or I'm barbecuing, then it's 50cl size.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2011, 06:13:31 AM »

Translated from science nerd to normal person: the article basically says that there is a molecule that your body makes normally, called AEA that binds to your cannabinoid receptors (of course THC also binds to these).  It doesn't look like weed has this molecule in any significant amount as far as I can tell in 2 minutes of googling.


exactly.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: cirrhosis
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2011, 04:43:13 PM »
Lately I've taken to using smaller glasses and cut my consumption in half or less.

My understanding is that cirrhosis isn't inevitable and only occurs in a percentage of those that drink heavily. Women also appear to be more susceptible to the disease.

I use a smaller glass but only so I can tryr more styles in a session.

Thats it, I'm not getting that sex change now.

Don't forget that we are all going to die,and theres a BIG genetic component.  Its eat drink and be merry for me.  Drinking beer IS moderation as far as I'm concerned.
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