Author Topic: Using whole kernel corn  (Read 5306 times)

Offline gmac

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Using whole kernel corn
« on: April 28, 2011, 09:37:49 AM »
I was wondering if anyone has used whole kernel dry corn instead of the flaked corn?  I'm assuming you'd need to gelatinize the starch.  I was thinking of running through the grain mill and then cooking it.  This would be for a cream ale.  Not 100% sure about using corn at all (bit of a traditionalist) but it seems appropriate to the style.   

Also, I saw a link to an article on cereal mashing but can't find the thread again to find the article.  Can someone refer me to it please?
Thanks

Offline weithman5

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 09:40:35 AM »
there is a recipe on tastybrew.com with whole kernel canned corn.  i have been thinking of using frozen corn in similar fashion for a CAP i am planning.
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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 09:44:44 AM »
Does anyone use corn grits? If so, can the quick grits go straight to the mash?

Offline gmac

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 10:08:48 AM »
Canned corn is a bit different than what I was thinking.  Canned corn is sweet corn which does not produce much starch and hence that is why it is sweet when we eat it.  I was thinking of field corn (dent) that produces hard starch.  I am willing to bet that is what flaked corn is made from (most people are surprised by how many uses field corn has, it's not just cattle/pig/chicken feed).  If I had access to waxy corn I'd try that but I don't.  Waxy is what corn starch is made from. 

I guess I'm thinking of making my own corn meal (grits) and then using that.  Usually corn meal is made from yellow corn, grits from white corn but they're very similar.

Offline anthony

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2011, 10:11:43 AM »
I've experimented with grits and corn meal. The problem I had was they always seemed stale; when you buy them in the store they have already been ground up so fine that there is a ton of surface area there. This seemed to carry over into my beers too. I was making light american lager and really low abv cream ales with it.

Offline denny

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2011, 11:02:28 AM »
there is a recipe on tastybrew.com with whole kernel canned corn.  i have been thinking of using frozen corn in similar fashion for a CAP i am planning.

I think I'd be really skeptical of most of the recipes there.
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Offline denny

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 11:02:49 AM »
Does anyone use corn grits? If so, can the quick grits go straight to the mash?
Yes and yes.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2011, 11:13:08 AM »
there is a recipe on tastybrew.com with whole kernel canned corn.  i have been thinking of using frozen corn in similar fashion for a CAP i am planning.

I think I'd be really skeptical of most of the recipes there.
i have been very skeptical so far.  i like to get some ideas and i use the calculator on that site sometimes to get an idea where i am headed. have not looked there in a long time now that i have an iphone with a few apps.  to date i have only brewed my own creations.  even the first kit i had i modified quite a bit.
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Offline denny

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2011, 11:15:22 AM »
there is a recipe on tastybrew.com with whole kernel canned corn.  i have been thinking of using frozen corn in similar fashion for a CAP i am planning.

I think I'd be really skeptical of most of the recipes there.
i have been very skeptical so far.  i like to get some ideas and i use the calculator on that site sometimes to get an idea where i am headed. have not looked there in a long time now that i have an iphone with a few apps.  to date i have only brewed my own creations.  even the first kit i had i modified quite a bit.

There are some good recipes there....but even the people on the forum complain about how many are untested or just plain bad.
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Offline gordonstrong

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2011, 11:23:28 AM »
there is a recipe on tastybrew.com with whole kernel canned corn.  i have been thinking of using frozen corn in similar fashion for a CAP i am planning.

I think I'd be really skeptical of most of the recipes there.

I'd be really skeptical of any recipe with canned corn.  My gut reaction is "WTF are you thinking?"  But I see the OP isn't contemplating this route, so I'll calm down.

You can use any form of corn; I've used flaked maize and grits/polenta (basically the same thing; I avoid instant-anything).

Whole dry corn could tear up your grain mill; a Corona mill is better for this, as is the mill attachment on a kitchen-aid mixer.  You're more grinding it than milling it like malt.

Yes, you need to gelatinize the starch, which only happens at hotter temps (above mash temp).  A cereal mash involves adding some pale malt in with the grits.  This explanation isn't bad: http://www.winning-homebrew.com/cereal-mash.html.

If you use flaked maize or quick grits, you can throw them right in the mash.  They're pre-gelatinized.  The flavor won't be as good, though.  But it might be good enough.
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Offline bonjour

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2011, 11:52:31 AM »
there is a recipe on tastybrew.com with whole kernel canned corn.  i have been thinking of using frozen corn in similar fashion for a CAP i am planning.

I think I'd be really skeptical of most of the recipes there.
i have been very skeptical so far.  i like to get some ideas and i use the calculator on that site sometimes to get an idea where i am headed. have not looked there in a long time now that i have an iphone with a few apps.  to date i have only brewed my own creations.  even the first kit i had i modified quite a bit.

There are some good recipes there....but even the people on the forum complain about how many are untested or just plain bad.
This is why I put my recipe site together.  If it has won some awards, someone has said that the beer is good.

Canned corn,  I don't think so, but . . .

You don't know how it will turn out until you try.  This isn't the norm and is not generally recommended, but feel free to break the mold. 
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2011, 12:32:57 PM »
you can get hominy in cans which is field corn, basically grits that have not been ground. I think they are cooked as well so you wouldn't need to geletenize. Don't know what it wouild taste like though. It has been trated with something (Lime i think, it that calcium carbonate? I think it's called cal in the prodcution of masa) to remove the husks and alter the protien.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 01:09:17 PM »
Flaked maize is easy, and I have used it for cream ales and other beers.

Grits/polenta/corn meal need to be cereal mashed as said above.  I made a decent CAP using 25% corn meal, ceral mashed with 10% of the 6-row malt.  

This has a good write up of the procedure by Jeff Renner (AKA Mr. CAP).
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1298/SOzym00-Pilsner.pdf

Edit - whole kernels would be bad news for the finished beer.  Those have the oil that will cause the beer to have poor head retention and go bad early.  You want degermed corn, where that means the outer skin has been removed.  If you buy grits/polenta/meal make sure it is degermed.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 01:13:06 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline Malticulous

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2011, 02:41:45 PM »
I've used unsalted canned corn and I've also cut it straight off the cob in a cereal mash. The problem is it's not de-gremed. There are supposedly oils in it (and impossible to get a dry weight.) There wasn't any noticeable problems with the beers I have used it in. The oils didn't seem to make it to packaging time.

I have had the best results with polenta and corn meal. Popcorn works too but adds a slight biscuity toast flavor.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 02:43:58 PM by Malticulous »

Offline Titanium Brewing

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Re: Using whole kernel corn
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 05:02:54 PM »
I've used unsalted canned corn and I've also cut it straight off the cob in a cereal mash. The problem is it's not de-gremed. There are supposedly oils in it (and impossible to get a dry weight.) There wasn't any noticeable problems with the beers I have used it in. The oils didn't seem to make it to packaging time.

I have had the best results with polenta and corn meal. Popcorn works too but adds a slight biscuity toast flavor.

Thanks for the insight. I have thought about using popcorn for a PPAL.
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