Going to add a plate chiller to the mix too. I'm very happy with my home made IC, it does a fine job on a 12 gallon batch, but I'm really trying to streamline everything in the new brewery. I have decided to upsize from 6x8 to 10x8. That will help, but I am really working with a limitation here. I figure by big ole' 50' chiller is just one less thing to have setting out on brew day. I will most likely end up with the Shirrone, from NB. With average water temps, will this be sufficent to cool a 12 gal batch, or do I REALLY need the Therminator? Also, I know they can be a pai to clean, but just how bad are they, and what is the process?