Author Topic: Fermcap S  (Read 12521 times)

Offline gordonstrong

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2011, 02:43:31 PM »
It's a simple decision for me. If it's not barley, hops, water or yeast, it doesn't belong in my beer.

No sugars, spices, fruit, etc.?

Or worse (for Denny), no rye?
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Offline james

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2011, 03:06:50 PM »
It's a simple decision for me. If it's not barley, hops, water or yeast, it doesn't belong in my beer.

No sugars, spices, fruit, etc.?

Don't forget wheat, rye, and other malted non-barley grains

ccarlson

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2011, 03:06:55 PM »
It's a simple decision for me. If it's not barley, hops, water or yeast, it doesn't belong in my beer.

No sugars, spices, fruit, etc.?

Don't need them, unless you're brewing a girlie beer.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 03:12:47 PM by ccarlson »

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2011, 03:23:00 PM »
Don't forget bourbon and vanilla beans.  Denny is definitely up a creek if we go Rheinheitsgebot.  I think he could get Oregon to secede from the union and ally with Belgium.

Honestly, most days I don't have a problem with boilovers but its nice to have insurance.  I really just got it for my 2L Ehrlenmeyer flask, I can't grow a simple 1.2L starter on a stirplate in it without it blowing out the top.

Schmidlin, that sounds closer to what I would have thought.  I was off by 10x somehow plus I didn't take the 4% ABW /5%ABV into account.  I'm so embarrassed, but relieved I'm not half dead after a few pints.  I'd be half dead most evenings.
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Offline jhwk

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2011, 03:47:24 PM »
I have used it for years without any ill effect.

There is something in there about memory loss, or worse yet... memory loss.

I have used it for years without  memory loss, or worse yet... memory loss.

I have used it for years.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2011, 04:37:17 AM »
I have used it for years without any ill effect.

There is something in there about memory loss, or worse yet... memory loss.

I have used it for years without  memory loss, or worse yet... memory loss.

I have used it for years.

You sure about that?
Lennie
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Offline maxieboy

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 08:29:00 AM »
Dimethylpolysiloxane in my beer? No thanks. If I can't pronounce it, it's not going in my beer...  ;)
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Offline denny

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 08:36:04 AM »
Don't need them, unless you're brewing a girlie beer.

You have strange ideas about "girlie beer".  My wife, a tiny thing, won't touch anything with fruits or spices.  Unless it's got at least 70 IBU, she's not interested.  Be careful when you stereotype.

No sugar means no Belgian beers or a lot of British beers.
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Offline richardt

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2011, 10:10:32 AM »
I did a little sleuthing on the internet. 
At the end of the day it seems that if one did ingest some Fermcap-S in the course of drinking a bottle or two of homebrew, then one might make softer poo.  I cannot find any info to support the kidney damage claim.
It seems that dimethylpolysiloxane is largely excreted unchanged in the feces (>80-90%).  A much smaller percentage is excreted via kidneys (<5%) and lungs (<1%).  In high (excessive doses) it appears that the most common (perhaps only) observable side effect was moist and frequent stools (in all study animals such as rats, rabbits, dogs, monkeys, and man).  It does not appear to build up in tissues.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v06je42.htm
These fears regarding dimethylpolysiloxane are probably overblown.  It seems that we’re all probably using or ingesting dimethylpolysiloxane in some form or another already.   
Source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylpolysiloxane
It is also used in the medical treatment of intestinal diseases, e.g., oral administration of dimethylpolysiloxane in the treatment of ulcerous diseases of the stomach and the duodenum and inflammatory diseases of the esophagus and stomach forms and maintains a protective film in these structures and results in the healing of these conditions.
And, from kaycircle:
Quote
Dimethylpolysiloxane is the most widely used silicon based organic polymer. It is non-toxic, non-flammable, and inert. It is used in contact lenses, medical devices, and shampoos as it makes hair silky and shiny, in lubricant oils and heat resistant tiles. It can mould itself according to any surface, thus it is used to cover any kind of surface. It is used as a defoaming agent, in cosmetics, polishes and as an adhesive. As a medicine, it is used as an anti-foaming agent and is carminative. As a food additive, it is used as an anti-foaming and anti-caking agent. It is used by McDonalds in its Chicken Nuggets. It is also used in soft drinks, skimmed milk, soups and syrups.
By Margaret Walker on Mon, 03/07/2011 - 22:24.
Source:  http://www.kaycircle.com/What-is-Dimethylpolysiloxane-Used-For-Health-Benefits-and-Side-Effects-of-Dimethylpolysiloxane-in-Food
Source:  http://forbezdvd.com/blog/2010/09/09/mcdonalds-chicken-mcnuggets-use-the-same-ingredients-in-it-found-in-silly-putty/
I’m going to keep using it (in the recommended doses, of course).  No sense in getting a bad case of the “green apple quick-step.”  One of these days, I ‘ll get around to filtering the beer, but, for now, chilling the beer seems to work well for me.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2011, 10:13:45 AM »
Thanks for looking all of that up, I feel a bit better.

And, from kaycircle:
Quote
It is used by McDonalds in its Chicken Nuggets.
Although this is not a justification for consuming anything. ;)
Tom Schmidlin

ccarlson

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2011, 10:18:50 AM »
Don't need them, unless you're brewing a girlie beer.

You have strange ideas about "girlie beer".  My wife, a tiny thing, won't touch anything with fruits or spices.  Unless it's got at least 70 IBU, she's not interested.  Be careful when you stereotype.

No sugar means no Belgian beers or a lot of British beers.

I would bet that the majority of fruit beers are consumed by women or guys that act that way. :)

Offline richardt

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2011, 12:11:39 PM »
Thanks for looking all of that up, I feel a bit better.

And, from kaycircle:
Quote
It is used by McDonalds in its Chicken Nuggets.
Although this is not a justification for consuming anything. ;)
Ha!  True.

Offline amish electrician

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2011, 05:23:45 PM »
I thought I would add to the calm that has come over us about the use of Fermcap S. 

So, looking at the MSDS someone posted of a similar product it seems that it is only 10% DMPS.  Weighing out Fermcap I got about 20 drops in 1 gram.  So if we use 2 drops per gallon in 7 gallons of wort to prevent boilover, we are looking at about 15 drops or 0.75g of Fermcap.  If it is about 10% DMPS then that is .075g going eventually into 5 gallons, or 19 liters of beer.  This is ~4mg per liter or ~4 parts per million.  This is lower than the 10-16 ppm the FDA allows.

Regarding the LD50 of DMPS on the MSDS it is greater than 5g per kg, which likely means that was the highest dose they gave to the rats and even that didn't kill half of them.  So for an "average" person of 70kg (although the 100kg assumption for average homebrewer is probably more accurate), and if we assume rats are equivalent to humans, we could probably take in at least 350g of it and survive, which would be over 4000 times what is probably in your 5 gallons of beer total.  If you did that though, you'd probably be taking the Jets to the Superbowl, if you know what I mean...

And yeah the high excretion unchanged, meaning no apparent metabolism in the cell, which also means very poor absorption certainly will help with increasing the concentration required to get lethal.  And of course this is also assuming that what you put in is what is present in the final beer, which looks like it is probably not the case either. 

So, I for one, will continue to use Fermcap with reckless abandon... in starters, to prevent boilover, to prevent blowoff, when boiling milk and water for instant pasta, just for fun cause I like the taste.... ok maybe not the last one....
 

Offline a10t2

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2011, 06:27:04 PM »
No sugars, spices, fruit, etc.?
Don't need them, unless you're brewing a girlie beer.

Damn. I had no idea my 23% barleywine was a girlie beer. ::)
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Fermcap S
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2011, 06:53:29 PM »
Dimethylpolysiloxane in my beer? No thanks. If I can't pronounce it, it's not going in my beer...  ;)


+1

The name is a little scary but I'm probably more likely to be struck down by lightning then be killed by a couple drops of Fermcap.  :-\

I don't use Fermcap and really haven't seen a need for it in my brewing. It sounds useful but I'm usually hovering around the kettle as it nears the boiling point and I hardly ever get a blow off ferment so it's really not worth it for me.

Ron Price