Author Topic: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?  (Read 5945 times)

Offline gmac

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 05:51:18 AM »
They are everywhere around here.  I met a friend out and had one tonight. 
Was this one of those "Cascadian Take Over the World" meetings?  I think the FBI needs to start watching you people...

Offline tumarkin

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 05:54:34 AM »
They are everywhere around here.  I met a friend out and had one tonight. 
Was this one of those "Cascadian Take Over the World" meetings?  I think the FBI needs to start watching you people...
there's a relatively new brew club in the Tampa area called Special Hoperations..... I think they're on it :D
Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 07:30:02 AM »
I think I'm going to invent a new style.  It is called Purple IPA.  It tastes just like a real IPA except that it is purple from the addition of red and blue food coloring.  It will be all the rage amongst fans of purple beers!

 :P   ;)
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline gmac

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2011, 07:35:23 AM »
I'm doing a Pale American Black IPA today.  Considering going really radical and putting a British twist on it...

Offline Kit B

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 07:36:50 AM »
I think I'm going to invent a new style.  It is called Purple IPA.  It tastes just like a real IPA except that it is purple from the addition of red and blue food coloring.  It will be all the rage amongst fans of purple beers!

 :P   ;)

Market it to the folks here, in Minneapolis.
The Vikings fans would make it all the rage.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 07:50:32 AM by Kit B »
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Offline hoser

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2011, 07:49:30 AM »
I think I'm going to invent a new style.  It is called Purple IPA.  It tastes just like a real IPA except that it is purple from the addition of red and blue food coloring.  It will be all the rage amongst fans of purple beers!

 :P   ;)

Thank You!  You disproved your own argument and proved mine by saying that they taste more like an IPA and not a stout or porter!  There should be a hint of roast in a black IPA, Cascadian Dark, American Black/Dark Ale, whatever you want to call it.  Generally from Carafa or debittered black malts.  I hate the sinamar addition because it is only a color addition and not really a flavor addition. 

Per the Brewers Association guidelines:

American-Style Black Ale
American-style Black Ale is perceived to have medium high to high hop bitterness, flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol
content, balanced with a medium body. Fruity, floral and herbal character from hops of all origins may contribute character. The
style is further characterized by a moderate degree of caramel malt character and dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High
astringency and high degree of burnt roast malt character should be absent. (i.e. stout or porter)
Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012-1.018 (3-4.5 ºPlato) ●
Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 5-6% (6 -7.5%) ● Bitterness (IBU) 50-70 ● Color SRM (EBC) 35+ (70+ EBC)

Was there this much of an uproar when people began brewing american brown ales? Why don't we just call hoppy Belgian beers tripels?  It is ok to have subtle differences in beers define a style.  Look at plant or animal species classifications, some species are only seperated by one gene that is different, but we don't try to lump them into the same category of species do we? No because they have subtle differences that make them unique.

The quote above was best;
Brew with style, not to style.

Offline denny

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2011, 08:24:13 AM »
I'm gonna brew a pale stout!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline hokerer

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2011, 08:28:48 AM »
I'm gonna brew a pale stout!

how 'bout a Helles Dunkel
Joe

Offline hoser

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2011, 08:35:13 AM »
I'm gonna brew a pale stout!

Too late Denny, Stone already beat you to it! Ha! I love those guys when April Fool's Day rolls around!

http://www.stonebrew.com/luciferin/

Offline Tim McManus

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2011, 09:20:59 AM »
Reviewing the 2008 BJCP style guide has brought this conversation into more focus for me.

Without knowing the process that created these beer styles, it seems that they are categorized historically and geographically first (hence the German, Irish, British, American, Belgian titles to categories).  This takes care of a good amount of beer styles and makes categorizing them fairly easy.  However, attempts were made to accommodate more modern styles by putting them into categories of similar beer attributes (lagers, stouts, porters, "hybrid", pale, etc.).

Part of the problem, IMHO, in categorizing this beer is that it inherits historical traits from one category and style traits from another.  It straddles the fence between both categories and is therefore difficult to describe and categorize.

Rather than constrain the category because of confusion between it's historical and style traits, a new style should be created that accommodated both aspects of the beer together.  I would call it an 10D American (Dark) Black Ale.  It would accommodate the additional roastiness of stouts and porters and also the use of American hops for bittering and aroma/flavor.  (10C - American Brown Ale is just short by describing, "The dark malt character is more robust than other brown ales, yet stops short of being overly porter-like.")  It might also cause the American Stout style to be absorbed into it.  The American Ale category looks like it was created to capture all of the American interpretation of certain historical styles.  It conveniently captures these styles and leaves room for other American interpretations of classic styles or styles that are uniquely American (as is the case with this nebulous style).

So in the scheme of the larger debate, I don't think the style should be referred to as a Black IPA.  It doesn't make sense.  I think a new subcategory called 10D - American Black Ale, where dark, hoppy, American-style beers can live, compete, and frolic happily.

But for now, Category 23 would be the best fit, IMHO.
Tim McManus
Haskell, NJ

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2011, 09:30:30 AM »
They are everywhere around here.  I met a friend out and had one tonight. 
Was this one of those "Cascadian Take Over the World" meetings?  I think the FBI needs to start watching you people...
We don't talk about it.  All I can say is he is from Portland, and has been working as a consultant for CBA for a couple of years.

I've said too much . . .
Tom Schmidlin

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2011, 09:31:34 AM »
I think I'm going to invent a new style.  It is called Purple IPA.  It tastes just like a real IPA except that it is purple from the addition of red and blue food coloring.  It will be all the rage amongst fans of purple beers!

 :P   ;)

If it had a nice purple color I would drink it.  I like purple.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline bluesman

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2011, 09:42:40 AM »
They are everywhere around here.  I met a friend out and had one tonight. 
Was this one of those "Cascadian Take Over the World" meetings?  I think the FBI needs to start watching you people...
We don't talk about it.  All I can say is he is from Portland, and has been working as a consultant for CBA for a couple of years.

I've said too much . . .

It's nice to have dreams...and I hate to burst your bubble.  ;D

http://www.alestreetnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=435:black-and-bitter--true-origins-of-black-ipa&catid=17:beer-stylestasting-panel&Itemid=32
Ron Price

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2011, 04:23:06 AM »
Thank You!  You disproved your own argument and proved mine by saying that they taste more like an IPA and not a stout or porter!

Oh, yes, that's exactly what I've done.   ::)
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline alikocho

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Re: How to classify a Black IPA for AHA competition?
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2011, 11:22:02 AM »
I'm gonna brew a pale stout!

This one's being kicked around by a few brewer's in Bristol. We're calling it "Project Moby."
Bristol Brewing Circle (BBC)
Bristol Craft Brewers

UK National Homebrew Competition - http://www.bristolhomebrewcompetition.org.uk/