Author Topic: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?  (Read 12074 times)

Offline JKL

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Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« on: May 16, 2011, 10:01:27 AM »
I've noticed that a lot of veteran brewers employ a 90 minute boil.  Aside from driving off DMS and increasing wort carmelization are there any other benefits?
-J.K.L.

Offline bluesman

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 10:07:47 AM »
Longer boils tend to darken the wort and there are maillard reactions taking place producing more melanoidins that enhance the maltiness of the wort. Not to mention increased hop isomerization or enhanced hop bitterness. The longer boil also concentrates these flavors that are created during the boil. Driving off DMS is probably one of the biggest reasons to boil longer but these other attributes also come into play as well.
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Offline Mark G

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 10:19:59 AM »
If I'm using pils malt, I'll go 90 minutes to drive off the DMS. I also use a 75 minute boil with non-pils grain bills as well, just so that I have 15 minutes to get the hot break before I add any hops, reducing the risk of boil-over.
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Offline denny

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 11:17:07 AM »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 11:33:21 AM »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.

Agreed they are are brown, high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.

They are an integral part of the maillard reaction which enhances maltiness. When sugars and amino acids combine (through the Maillard reaction) at high temperatures there's nonenzymatic browning similar to caramelization. In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 11:40:45 AM by bluesman »
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Offline denny

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 11:45:12 AM »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.

Agreed they are are brown, high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.

They are an integral part of the maillard reaction which enhances maltiness. When sugars and amino acids combine (through the Maillard reaction) at high temperatures there's nonenzymatic browning similar to caramelization. In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created.

Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 11:50:05 AM »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.

Agreed they are are brown, high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.

They are an integral part of the maillard reaction which enhances maltiness. When sugars and amino acids combine (through the Maillard reaction) at high temperatures there's nonenzymatic browning similar to caramelization. In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created.

Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

 ;D
Ron Price

Offline bonjour

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 12:02:00 PM »
OK,
so what happens to the sugars (solids) when the water they are being carried by suddenly disappears into a cloud of water vapor?

Traditionally caramelization occurs when water is removed and the resulting sugars heat up, as in making candy.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2011, 12:11:19 PM »
OK,
so what happens to the sugars (solids) when the water they are being carried by suddenly disappears into a cloud of water vapor?

Traditionally caramelization occurs when water is removed and the resulting sugars heat up, as in making candy.
Yes, you need to remove enough water for the temperature to get hot enough for the sugars to caramelize.  We never reach that point with wort.  For example, maltose doesn't caramelize until over 350F.  Glucose around 320F.  Wort - 212F.  Your wort might hit 215F though Fred. :)

<edit>I found this cool boiling point calculator.  Enter the brix, it tells you the bp.
http://www.sugartech.co.za/bpe/index.php
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 12:14:43 PM by tschmidlin »
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Offline gordonstrong

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 12:16:40 PM »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 12:33:16 PM »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.
Once upon a midnight dreary
While he pondered weak and weary
Over many a pint of quaint and hoppy brew
While he nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping
As if some gentle hippy came tipsy to correct his point of view
Tis some pedantic hippy
Only this and nothing new.
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Offline JKL

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 12:43:07 PM »
Aside from driving off DMS and increasing wort carmelization are there any other benefits?
-J.K.L.
high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.


Yeah, that's what I meant to say but I didn't want to confuse anyone. ;)

-J.K.L.

Offline denny

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 01:47:42 PM »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.

Good idea...I'll join ya!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline denny

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 01:48:21 PM »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.
Once upon a midnight dreary
While he pondered weak and weary
Over many a pint of quaint and hoppy brew
While he nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping
As if some gentle hippy came tipsy to correct his point of view
Tis some pedantic hippy
Only this and nothing new.

You RAWK!!  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2011, 02:44:19 PM »
Ninety minutes produces about the maximum isomerization potential for alpha acids in wort according to work by Malawicki and Shellhammer.  Beyond that time, the isomerized alpha acids are broken down to a slight degree and the bittering actually decreases.  In terms of energy efficiency of converting alpha acids to iso-alpha acids, a boil time in the 60 minute range is better than 90 minutes. 
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