Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?  (Read 34831 times)

Offline JKL

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« on: May 16, 2011, 11:01:27 am »
I've noticed that a lot of veteran brewers employ a 90 minute boil.  Aside from driving off DMS and increasing wort carmelization are there any other benefits?
-J.K.L.

Offline bluesman

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8825
  • Delaware
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 11:07:47 am »
Longer boils tend to darken the wort and there are maillard reactions taking place producing more melanoidins that enhance the maltiness of the wort. Not to mention increased hop isomerization or enhanced hop bitterness. The longer boil also concentrates these flavors that are created during the boil. Driving off DMS is probably one of the biggest reasons to boil longer but these other attributes also come into play as well.
Ron Price

Offline Mark G

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 898
  • Huntley, IL
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 11:19:59 am »
If I'm using pils malt, I'll go 90 minutes to drive off the DMS. I also use a 75 minute boil with non-pils grain bills as well, just so that I have 15 minutes to get the hot break before I add any hops, reducing the risk of boil-over.
Mark Gres

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 12:17:07 pm »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline bluesman

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8825
  • Delaware
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 12:33:21 pm »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.

Agreed they are are brown, high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.

They are an integral part of the maillard reaction which enhances maltiness. When sugars and amino acids combine (through the Maillard reaction) at high temperatures there's nonenzymatic browning similar to caramelization. In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 12:40:45 pm by bluesman »
Ron Price

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 12:45:12 pm »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.

Agreed they are are brown, high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.

They are an integral part of the maillard reaction which enhances maltiness. When sugars and amino acids combine (through the Maillard reaction) at high temperatures there's nonenzymatic browning similar to caramelization. In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created.

Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline bluesman

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8825
  • Delaware
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 12:50:05 pm »
Technically speaking, you can't get caramelization in the boil.  And melanoidins are colors, not flavors, so they won't enhance the maltiness of the wort.

Agreed they are are brown, high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.

They are an integral part of the maillard reaction which enhances maltiness. When sugars and amino acids combine (through the Maillard reaction) at high temperatures there's nonenzymatic browning similar to caramelization. In the process, hundreds of different flavor compounds are created.

Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

 ;D
Ron Price

Offline bonjour

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1791
  • Troy, MI, 37mi, 60.9deg AR
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2011, 01:02:00 pm »
OK,
so what happens to the sugars (solids) when the water they are being carried by suddenly disappears into a cloud of water vapor?

Traditionally caramelization occurs when water is removed and the resulting sugars heat up, as in making candy.
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8198
  • Redmond, WA
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2011, 01:11:19 pm »
OK,
so what happens to the sugars (solids) when the water they are being carried by suddenly disappears into a cloud of water vapor?

Traditionally caramelization occurs when water is removed and the resulting sugars heat up, as in making candy.
Yes, you need to remove enough water for the temperature to get hot enough for the sugars to caramelize.  We never reach that point with wort.  For example, maltose doesn't caramelize until over 350F.  Glucose around 320F.  Wort - 212F.  Your wort might hit 215F though Fred. :)

<edit>I found this cool boiling point calculator.  Enter the brix, it tells you the bp.
http://www.sugartech.co.za/bpe/index.php
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 01:14:43 pm by tschmidlin »
Tom Schmidlin

Offline gordonstrong

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1355
    • BJCP
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 01:16:40 pm »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline jeffy

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4222
  • Tampa, Fl
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 01:33:16 pm »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.
Once upon a midnight dreary
While he pondered weak and weary
Over many a pint of quaint and hoppy brew
While he nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping
As if some gentle hippy came tipsy to correct his point of view
Tis some pedantic hippy
Only this and nothing new.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline JKL

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 01:43:07 pm »
Aside from driving off DMS and increasing wort carmelization are there any other benefits?
-J.K.L.
high molecular weight heterogeneous polymers.


Yeah, that's what I meant to say but I didn't want to confuse anyone. ;)

-J.K.L.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2011, 02:47:42 pm »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.

Good idea...I'll join ya!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27093
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2011, 02:48:21 pm »
Agreed on all counts...I was in pedantic mode!

Is "pedantic hippy" an oxymoron?  Hmmm, need to ponder that over a beer.
Once upon a midnight dreary
While he pondered weak and weary
Over many a pint of quaint and hoppy brew
While he nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping
As if some gentle hippy came tipsy to correct his point of view
Tis some pedantic hippy
Only this and nothing new.

You RAWK!!  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline mabrungard

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2902
  • Water matters!
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Benefits of a 90 minute boil?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2011, 03:44:19 pm »
Ninety minutes produces about the maximum isomerization potential for alpha acids in wort according to work by Malawicki and Shellhammer.  Beyond that time, the isomerized alpha acids are broken down to a slight degree and the bittering actually decreases.  In terms of energy efficiency of converting alpha acids to iso-alpha acids, a boil time in the 60 minute range is better than 90 minutes. 
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://www.brunwater.com/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks