Author Topic: Help with Kolsch mash schedule  (Read 3186 times)

Offline dano14041

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Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« on: May 16, 2011, 02:07:39 PM »
I am planning on doing an experiment over the next two brew sessions. I am going to make a Kolsch first with a step mash and then with a single infusion-batch sparge.

The recipe is:

8.13 lbs Bel Pilsner
6.9 oz Vienna Malt
1.58 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 60 min
Whirlfloc 5 min

90 min boil

Wyeast 2565 Kolsch yeast (starter for first batch, re-pitch slurry for second batch.)

Step Mash:
131 F 15 Min
144 F 45 Min
158 F 15 Min
168 F Mash out (10 Min)

All steps will be done with water additions (I haven't calculated the amount needed for each step yet)

Single Infusion-Batch sparge:
Infuse with 5 gal to acheive 149 F, hold for 90 Min.
Sparge with 3.42 gal of 170 F Water.


Both:
Pre-boil: 8.40 gal Gravity: 1.037
Ending volume: 5.25 gal OG 1.048
FG 1.012

Ferment for 14 days at 60 F (around 55 F ambient, but will adjust as needed.)
Cold crash at 32 F for 24 hours, keg, and lager for 2 - 4 weeks at 40 F.

My questions are:
- Does the step infusion look OK, or do I need to adjust it? Will the water additions make a big difference over a direct fired Mash?
- What kind of water profile should I use? My water profile is here: http://www.cityoftulsa.org/media/90852/2010%20water%20quality%20report.pdf The water is supposed to be good for Pale Ales.
- Should I use my water (carbon filtered) or start with RO and add some salts?

I am trying to see if I can detect any difference between the two types of mash techniques.

Thanks for any and all help!
Dano
Tulsa, OK

Offline narvin

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 03:23:36 PM »
The only thing I can say is that I doubt you'll be able to do 3 infusions with water and hit your temperatures.  Have you done a step infusion like this before?  In my experience it takes significantly more boiling water to raise temp than the calculators say, after heat losses to the air, stirring, and god knows what.  
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 06:58:11 PM »
Single infusion is simply all you need. Aim for 150-152. People get way too tied up in mash schedules when it is the fermentation and conditioning that really makes the difference. IMO.
Keith Y.

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Offline bluesman

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 07:03:42 PM »
Single infusion is simply all you need. Aim for 150-152. People get way too tied up in mash schedules when it is the fermentation and conditioning that really makes the difference. IMO.

+1

However, if you decide to step mash you may want to consider dropping the 131F protien rest as it's not necessary with today's highly modified malts. The rest of your schedule looks good.

I would try a single infusion. I don't think you'll be disappointed in the slightest.
Ron Price

Offline dano14041

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 11:13:53 AM »
Narvin, I haven't done a step infusion like this before, but Beersmith says it is possible. I wind up with all the water in the mash tun with a 4 qt/lb water to grain ratio and no sparge, but it can be done.

Majorvices and Bluesman, I know that the step mash isn't necessary, but I want to do the experiment to see if my friends and I can perceive any difference in the beers. Something for me to play around with and have 10 gal of Kolsch to drink over the summer.  ;)
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 03:19:31 PM »
Sorry. I forget that some people enjoy playing around with this sort of thing. All I remember is what a PITA step infusion mashing is.

One thing I will say, I find a small amount of aroma hops really goes well in a kolsch around the 2 minute mark. Another thing I have really enjoyed is all FWH kolsch targeting about 25-30 BUs. Have fun and good luck! 8)
Keith Y.

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Offline dano14041

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2011, 07:47:05 AM »
Thanks!
It is either brew beer or work in the yard. I think brewing is the more rewarding choice.  ;D
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Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 11:28:30 AM »
However, if you decide to step mash you may want to consider dropping the 131F protien rest as it's not necessary with today's highly modified malts. The rest of your schedule looks good.

I would try a single infusion. I don't think you'll be disappointed in the slightest.
I think you should try a step-mash.  Otherwise you'll never know 'first hand' what it does, how hard it is to do (it's not), etc.

I agree with 'skip the protein rest' though.  If you skip that you have a Hochkurz infusion mash, described at the end of Kaiser's Infusion Mashing article.  You may want to increase the rest time at 158* F but you don't have to, your choice.

HTH and good luck!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 11:31:10 AM by SpanishCastleAle »

Offline narvin

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 11:42:54 AM »
Narvin, I haven't done a step infusion like this before, but Beersmith says it is possible. I wind up with all the water in the mash tun with a 4 qt/lb water to grain ratio and no sparge, but it can be done.


Good luck ;-)  I've never hit a mash out with a step infusion mash no matter what the calculators say.  Kudos to you if you can!
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Thanks
Chris S.

Offline tygo

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 11:51:17 AM »
Narvin, I haven't done a step infusion like this before, but Beersmith says it is possible. I wind up with all the water in the mash tun with a 4 qt/lb water to grain ratio and no sparge, but it can be done.


Good luck ;-)  I've never hit a mash out with a step infusion mash no matter what the calculators say.  Kudos to you if you can!

+1  In my experience it always takes more water than what beersmith tells me.
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Offline denny

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 12:07:43 PM »
If you mash in a cooler, I think it's a given that you won't be able to accurately calculate infusion.  Coolers are made to resist temp changes.  If I want to step mash, I just stir in boiling water until I hit my temp.
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Offline dano14041

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2011, 01:48:26 PM »
If you mash in a cooler, I think it's a given that you won't be able to accurately calculate infusion.  Coolers are made to resist temp changes.  If I want to step mash, I just stir in boiling water until I hit my temp.

Thanks Denny!
I think I will try that. Any left over water can be used to sparge with, or if I have too much I can increase the boil time.

Consensus seems to be to skip the protein rest so I will ditch that.

SpanishCastleAle, how long would you rest at 158?

Thanks for all the input!
Dano
Tulsa, OK

Offline denny

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 02:09:55 PM »
I'm not SCA, but my typical step mash schedule is 30 at 145 and 30 at 158.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 07:17:00 PM »
I'm not SCA, but my typical step mash schedule is 30 at 145 and 30 at 158.

+1

I think this schedule will give you a fair amount of beta conversion while finishing up with an alpha rest to allow for the remaining longer starch chains to be broken down producing more varieties of sugars therefore lending the beer some level of detectable body.
Ron Price

Offline dano14041

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Re: Help with Kolsch mash schedule
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 11:15:44 AM »
Thank you all for your advice!

I wound up ignoring most of it, being the glutton for punishment that I am.  ::) But I was doing this as a learning experience and it was that!

I decided to do the P rest for 15 min and hit that temp. It was down hill from there on.
The 30 min 144F rest turned out to be a 1 hour 142F rest. (I was having burner issues and it took that long to get my water to boil.)
The 30 min 158F rest was a 30 min 156F rest. (I was trying for the 145F 30 min and 158F 30 min rest as was suggested)
I didn't reach anywhere near the 168F Mash out, I could only get to 158 with the remaining water.

Increased the boil to 120 min from 90 min to boil off the excess.

I did hit my pre-boil gravity and OG dead on and there is 5.25 gal of Kolsch fermenting away.

I learned: Yes, a infusion step mash is hard to do and hit  your step temp and it is generally a PITA.  ;D

I am going to do the same recipe in two weeks and in a couple months, I will be able to compare the results.

Thank you all for your advice!
To paraphrase someone else: "This forum is one of the best tools for brewing!"  :D

Tulsa, OK