Author Topic: Selling.....maybe?  (Read 5395 times)

Offline phillamb168

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2338
  • Lardy, France
    • View Profile
    • My Job
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2011, 04:04:25 AM »
You mention in the first post about doing 5-gal batches and selling those - the problem is, non-sankey systems (read: corny kegs) pretty much don't exist in most pubs/bars, so convincing someone to dedicate time, tap space and equipment costs to not only a brewer just getting off the ground but also to a different tapping system from what they have already, will be difficult.
The other thing about 5-gal vs Sankey is workload - if your beer is really popular, they're going to have to have someone going down to the cold storage and swapping kegs out more often.
If you're going to do sankey kegs, you're going to have to brew basically three times the same batch for one keg, which is three times the work you want to be doing.
My suggestion, if you wanna be serious about this, is to first get your brewhouse up to handling 15.5 gallon batches. Shouldn't cost you too much, and from what I've seen filling sankeys without all that filling machinery isn't terribly difficult.

My $0,02 anyway.

They make 5 gallon "corny style" kegs with Sanke valves.

No s***? Are they as easy to open/fill as cornys? Man, I'd LOVE that - what are they called?
I'm on twitter: phillamb168
----
morticaixavier for governing committee!

ccarlson

  • Guest
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2011, 04:26:22 AM »
I know that New Belgium offers them, because I was given one years ago. I have never used it, but I would think you'd fill through a Sanke connector or the spear could be removed. In fact, the spear would probably have to removed unless you were to get the proper equipment to clean it. I'm guessing high pressure steam. Here are a couple of them next to some regular Sankes. Sorry, I can't offer more info about them.



Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7615
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2011, 04:36:04 AM »
FWIW the majority of my beer is sold in 1/6 bbl (5.25 gallons) sanke kegs. We also sell in half bbl kegs to those locations that demand it. A lot of the bar tenders now prefer the smaller kegs because, while they do have to swap them out more often, they are much, much easier to move.

Also, you would want to pick up a keg filler. Removing the spear every time would be a PITA. That said, I do know some breweries who do that. Nucking Futs I say! ;)
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

ccarlson

  • Guest
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2011, 05:04:13 AM »
FWIW the majority of my beer is sold in 1/6 bbl (5.25 gallons) sanke kegs. We also sell in half bbl kegs to those locations that demand it. A lot of the bar tenders now prefer the smaller kegs because, while they do have to swap them out more often, they are much, much easier to move.

Also, you would want to pick up a keg filler. Removing the spear every time would be a PITA. That said, I do know some breweries who do that. Nucking Futs I say! ;)

So, how do you clean them? If I did it without removing the spear, I'd probably just pump a hot cleaning solution through them for a few minutes, followed by a good rinse and a little sanitizer..

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7615
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2011, 06:34:36 AM »
Cleaning is a bit tricky if you don't own an actual keg cleaner (which I plan on purchasing eventually, but they costs about $15,000 for the one I want). We built a keg cleaning station that works well though is labor intensive. First we purge with 140 degree rinse water. Then recirc 140-160 degree cleanser through each keg for about 2 minutes (longer for 1/2 bbl kegs) followed by another rinse and then recirc sanitizer and purge with Co2. During the cleanse cycle you apply compressed air to up water pressure and to insure total evacuation of water/cleanser. In our case we run the cleansing routine first on all kegs. Disassemble cleansing parts and reassemble to sanitize. Takes about 4-5 hours to clean/sanitize about 60 kegs.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline oscarvan

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1707
    • View Profile
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2011, 06:51:21 AM »
Takes about 4-5 hours to clean/sanitize about 60 kegs.

Sounds like work.......
Wooden Shoe Brew Works (not a commercial operation) Bethlehem, PA
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/WSBW/WSBW_All_grain_Setup.html
I brew WITH style..... not necessarily TO style.....

Offline johnf

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2011, 07:00:06 AM »
I know that New Belgium offers them, because I was given one years ago. I have never used it, but I would think you'd fill through a Sanke connector or the spear could be removed. In fact, the spear would probably have to removed unless you were to get the proper equipment to clean it. I'm guessing high pressure steam. Here are a couple of them next to some regular Sankes. Sorry, I can't offer more info about them.



Those are normal 1/6 barrel sankey kegs. A ton of craft is sold in them. There are some soda kegs that have been converted to sankey. Sabco sells them as "pub kegs". I believe the draw is that they are cheaper than buying new sankey and used sankey basically doesn't exist. Could be wrong on that.

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3489
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2011, 07:26:05 AM »
Cleaning is a bit tricky if you don't own an actual keg cleaner (which I plan on purchasing eventually, but they costs about $15,000 for the one I want). ... Takes about 4-5 hours to clean/sanitize about 60 kegs.

:o It's all about perspective. I can clean maybe 5-6 kegs/hour since we have to pull the stems (in the sixtels, for half-barrels we just debung them).
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
seanterrill.com/category/brewing
twomilebrewing.com

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2011, 07:30:42 AM »
Cleaning is a bit tricky if you don't own an actual keg cleaner (which I plan on purchasing eventually, but they costs about $15,000 for the one I want). ... Takes about 4-5 hours to clean/sanitize about 60 kegs.

:o It's all about perspective. I can clean maybe 5-6 kegs/hour since we have to pull the stems (in the sixtels, for half-barrels we just debung them).

It's the details like this that one doesn't necessarily think too much about, until you actually dive into it. 4-6hrs in keg cleaning is a significant amount of time and effort.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 07:36:03 AM by bluesman »
Ron Price

Offline Tim McManus

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
    • Haskell Brewing Company
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2011, 07:34:50 AM »
The conry conversion happened a few years ago and it's why the price of cornies has gone up, less supply.

To convert the corny they remove the posts and weld them shut.  The lid is converted with a sanke attachment and tube and is also welded shut.  It's kind of freakish-looking the first time you see it, but it is a much more cost effective solution for commercial brewers.
Tim McManus
Haskell, NJ

ccarlson

  • Guest
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2011, 07:46:37 AM »
I've thought about trying to make a keg cleaner that would recirculate cleaning and rinsing solutions without having to open the keg, but I just never got around to it. I'm not sure it's really worth the effort or expense.

Online tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2011, 08:49:30 AM »
The local bottle shop has about 15 beers on tap, and one on cask.  There wouldn't be room for all of those kegs if they were bigger than sixtels, plus they would be stuck with a huge amount of one beer to sell.  That's not really what they're going for, high rotation keeps people coming back again and again.  Yet anther reason the smaller kegs may be preferred.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline punatic

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4583
  • Puna District, Hawaii Island (UTC -10)
    • View Profile
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2011, 09:39:08 AM »
You mention in the first post about doing 5-gal batches and selling those - the problem is, non-sankey systems (read: corny kegs) pretty much don't exist in most pubs/bars, so convincing someone to dedicate time, tap space and equipment costs to not only a brewer just getting off the ground but also to a different tapping system from what they have already, will be difficult.
The other thing about 5-gal vs Sankey is workload - if your beer is really popular, they're going to have to have someone going down to the cold storage and swapping kegs out more often.
If you're going to do sankey kegs, you're going to have to brew basically three times the same batch for one keg, which is three times the work you want to be doing.
My suggestion, if you wanna be serious about this, is to first get your brewhouse up to handling 15.5 gallon batches. Shouldn't cost you too much, and from what I've seen filling sankeys without all that filling machinery isn't terribly difficult.

My $0,02 anyway.

They make 5 gallon "corny style" kegs with Sanke valves.

Party pooper...   ;D
There is only one success: to be able to spend your life in your own way.


AHA Life Member #33907

ccarlson

  • Guest
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2011, 09:45:02 AM »
You mention in the first post about doing 5-gal batches and selling those - the problem is, non-sankey systems (read: corny kegs) pretty much don't exist in most pubs/bars, so convincing someone to dedicate time, tap space and equipment costs to not only a brewer just getting off the ground but also to a different tapping system from what they have already, will be difficult.
The other thing about 5-gal vs Sankey is workload - if your beer is really popular, they're going to have to have someone going down to the cold storage and swapping kegs out more often.
If you're going to do sankey kegs, you're going to have to brew basically three times the same batch for one keg, which is three times the work you want to be doing.
My suggestion, if you wanna be serious about this, is to first get your brewhouse up to handling 15.5 gallon batches. Shouldn't cost you too much, and from what I've seen filling sankeys without all that filling machinery isn't terribly difficult.

My $0,02 anyway.

They make 5 gallon "corny style" kegs with Sanke valves.

Party pooper...   ;D

;D
And you'd think since I own one I'd know more about them.

Offline brewmichigan

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
Re: Selling.....maybe?
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2011, 10:37:14 AM »
Weaz, I would think for this venture to even be worth your time you would need to step up production to 3 bbls or more. Unless you are selling everything at your bar or tasting booth, you're not going to make very much selling 5 gallon batches to this guy at 40 bucks a pop. Wouldn't even cover your time.
Mike --- Flint, Michigan