Poll

All Grain Efficancy

n
6 (37.5%)
m
5 (31.3%)
l
5 (31.3%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: All Grain Efficancy  (Read 2575 times)

Offline hiphophead

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All Grain Efficancy
« on: May 23, 2011, 03:22:27 PM »
If im getting full conversion of my grains according to iodine test then how come my software is off when i say 85% efficany.  its always higher then what i end up with.  im resurculating through out the whole mash at 152F with a digital controler and heating element setup.  then raise up to mash out to 168F. run off everything. sparge. resirc for another 10 min or so and run off again.  i could ttry another sparge method but i was curious why i wasnt getting the efficancy. thanks everyone.

Offline bonjour

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 04:24:04 PM »
100% of the extracted sugars are converted.  Perform an iodine test on the grain, it will fail.

Brewhouse efficiency is something different from the starch conversion in your wort..  This that impact efficiency include crush, mash time, sparge time, speed of sparge, time for sparge, mash type, collected volume to name a few.
Fred Bonjour
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ccarlson

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 06:51:15 PM »
Try increasing your mash time and be sure your crush is done well. These are the 2 things that I really worked on and eventually my efficiency was in the lower 90's, for some beers.

Offline thomasbarnes

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 12:53:25 AM »
Try increasing your mash time and be sure your crush is done well. These are the 2 things that I really worked on and eventually my efficiency was in the lower 90's, for some beers.

Wow! That's better than most commercial breweries get.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 04:16:51 AM »
It's mostly about the crush, but there's a tradeoff between grinding into flour versus being able to run it off.  Every system is a little different, but why not push the limit and see what your system can do.

Boil time and batch size also make a difference.  It's easier to get higher efficiency with smaller batches because percentagewise, you can collect more runnings out of a smaller amount of grain, so you're basically "wasting" less of the malt sugars.  The more wort you collect (and boil off) out of the lesser amount of grain, the higher your efficiency will be.  I see this on my 3-gallon batches when I can easily hit 90% efficiency on my system.  Basically, when I'm done sparging, there's not a whole lot of sugar left in the grains anymore because I still need to sparge to get enough wort in the kettle for ~4.5 gallons, then boil off a whopping ~25% of that over the course of an hour.  If I do a longer boil, efficiency goes up even more because I need to sparge even more to get my preboil volume.
Dave

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Offline oscarvan

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 05:28:29 AM »
Uh oh..... here we go again....
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Offline weithman5

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 05:43:14 AM »
there are a lot of places you can lose sugar and it is really brewery dependant.  I measure my overall efficiency by the theoretical output i should get from the grain and how much sugar i have left when i transer it to the fermenter.  then i focus on where it gets lost.  most notably the mash process and dead space in the tun, kettle.

Fred.   good to have another ex-submariner on the board.
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Offline bonjour

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 06:52:36 AM »
Fred.   good to have another ex-submariner on the board.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 07:13:32 AM »
Brewhouse efficiency is something different from the starch conversion in your wort..  This that impact efficiency include crush, mash time, sparge time, speed of sparge, time for sparge, mash type, collected volume to name a few.

Good point Fred.

The conversion of the mash is the percentage of available starches that was converted to sugar. Typically 80% of the starches have potential to convert under ideal circumstances.

brewhouse efficiency %  = 100% * lautered extract weight (lb) / potential extract in grist (lb)

Here's a great presentation of mash efficiency by Kai Troester.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/4797/A_Closer_Look_at_Efficiency-Kai_Troester.pdf
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ccarlson

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 07:38:28 AM »
I only worry about what goes into the kettle and establish my efficiency based on the volume and gravity before I  boil. Any other losses are somewhat out of my control.

When I said I get "some" beers in the lower 90's I meant 91-92% and only with lighter beers. With heavier beers I drop into the mid to upper 80's.

Offline Slowbrew

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 08:55:09 AM »
This is anecdotal but I get a little bump in efficiency if I stir the mash half way through.  It's not huge but it does seem to make a difference on my system.

Paul
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ccarlson

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 09:19:10 AM »
This is anecdotal but I get a little bump in efficiency if I stir the mash half way through.  It's not huge but it does seem to make a difference on my system.

Paul

I believe that. Has to be a reason why the big breweries stir throughout the mash.

Offline denny

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 11:46:40 AM »
I believe that. Has to be a reason why the big breweries stir throughout the mash.

Because they're not homebrewers and their systems are different?  I haven't found any benefits to stirring half way through.  That's not to say that it doesn't work for others.
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ccarlson

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 11:53:57 AM »
I believe that. Has to be a reason why the big breweries stir throughout the mash.

Because they're not homebrewers and their systems are different?  I haven't found any benefits to stirring half way through.  That's not to say that it doesn't work for others.

While their systems are obviously different from ours, stirring is stirring and you don't include extensive mechanics in a system unless there is a pay back of some kind. I've thought many times about including a stirrer in my system, but I just can't figure out how to do it neatly and inexpensively.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 12:05:45 PM by ccarlson »

Offline euge

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Re: All Grain Efficancy
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 11:55:34 AM »
There's a number of variables that affect "efficiency" negatively and one of them is mash thickness or depth and the water to grist ratio. That is primary factor in my brewery. Others are the crush and how long the mash is conducted. Have a coarse grist? Mash for longer. Sparge with some extra water and boil it off. Then there's pH to consider...

People report very high numbers but I don't think everyone should shoot for this as the expected "standard". My understanding is the 75% is quite acceptable and trying for more than this can be a distraction amongst all the other variables that make up a brewday and a batch of beer.

I've adopted the "damn the efficiency" line of thinking and subscribe to Kirin Ichiban's "ruthless inefficiency" philosophy. Now that may be in the 80 percentile for all I know. Regardless, I'm not going to fret over a couple of dollars worth of grain as long as I hit my expected extraction and each brewday is consistent. These days I calculate for 65% brewhouse efficiency for my typical no-sparge batch.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman