[gmac]

I'm thinking of trying an American style IPA (my target is about 60 IBU and to try dry hopping for the first time) and I've looked at a lot of recipes but I'm really not sure what to do because most of the ones I've looked at have ingredients that I don't have on hand and it's a pain to order them.  Based on the following grain's available, can I do something good?  I was planning to do Denny's Rye PA recipe but I don't have any dextrine malt or the Mt Hood and Columbus hops.

I've got 2-row, C 45, C120, wheat malt, pilsner malt, vienna malt and rye malt.  Also have a bit of chocolate malt, roasted barley and a bit of carafa II that I thought was de-hulled but it does not say "Special" on it so I am thinking maybe it isn't (any advice on how to tell?)  I also have a bit of Maris Otter that I'm not happy with because all the beer I make are very cloudy so I'm saving it until fall to use in some stouts.

Does it matter what the grain bill is within reason since the hops are the star of the show?

Also, would you mix Cascade and Amarillo?  Which would you choose for flavour and which for aroma/dry hop?  I see Simcoe and Amarillo together a lot but as you know, Simcoe is hard to find.  What else would you use with Amarillo?  I only have a couple ounces so I can't do it all or I'd try Fred's Amarillo recipe.
Thanks



Thanks

[thomasbarnes]

Does it matter what the grain bill is within reason since the hops are the star of the show?

You want to have some sweetness and body to partially balance the hops, nor can you go too dark with color since anything more than a bit of toast character would throw the beer out of style.

Given the malts you have on hand, you could go lighter on the hops and brew an American amber or American brown which emphasizes the malt a bit more. If you still wanted to lay on the hops, you could brew a "Texas-style" hoppy amber or brown ale, but those styles don't usually work so well due to the difficulty of balancing hop and malt bitterness.

It could imagine an AIPA working nicely with a base of Pils malt with some Vienna and 45 L crystal for a bit of body and character. Just mash at a lower temperature to thin out the body from the base malt a bit.

Also, would you mix Cascade and Amarillo?

Plenty of commmercial brews do it. Amarillo gives very strong grapefruit or orange notes, Cascade gives more lemony citrus notes. Both are very piney/resinous. Your beer will smell like grapefruit juice and retsina - but in a good way!

Which would you choose for flavour and which for aroma/dry hop?

I'm going to be weaselly and say you should use a blend of both for flavor, aroma and dry hops.

[ethalacker]

Try this.
11 pounds of 2-row
2 pounds of c-45
1.5 oz of Amarillo 60min
1 oz of cascade 30min
1oz of cascade 5min

1oz of amarillo dry hop
1oz of cascade dry hop

[SpanishCastleAle]

Some people brew IPAs using no crystal malt at all.  You could use the 2-row with a bunch of Vienna and a little C45...or even use some Pils for the 2-row if you want a little more sweetness.

[gmac]

Try this.
11 pounds of 2-row
2 pounds of c-45
1.5 oz of Amarillo 60min
1 oz of cascade 30min
1oz of cascade 5min

1oz of amarillo dry hop
1oz of cascade dry hop

BeerTools shows this to be a bit higher alcohol than I'd like.  I usually run about 85% efficiency so that puts it just over 8% ABV.  I know I need a bit more alcohol to be to style but that's a bit high for me.  I'm thinking of just dropping the 2-row to 9 lbs and the C45 to 1.5.  Would that give the same result?  Also, can I use another bittering hop?  I don't have much Amarillo.  I have Perle and Northern Brewer which aren't exactly to style but given that they would be bittering hops would it matter?

Also, I think I'll do the blending as suggested above for at least the flavour/aroma and dry hopping.

[gordonstrong]

Some people brew IPAs using no crystal malt at all.  You could use the 2-row with a bunch of Vienna and a little C45...or even use some Pils for the 2-row if you want a little more sweetness.

+1

I'd question that much crystal too.  Ask yourself whether you want it malty or sweet.  If you want it malty, use the Vienna.  If you want it sweet, use the crystal.  Personally, I'd try 60% 2-row, 30% pils, and 10% vienna.  If you want more sweetness, maybe a half pound of the C-45.  Amarillo is good on its own.  Cascade should work just fine with it too.  Centennial would be OK too.

It's a wide ranging style.  I've had all-Vienna IPAs that were wonderful.  You might have to crank up the hops more if you go with a maltier base.  Personally, I'd like to keep it relatively simple.  Play around with the base malts and see how they let the hops come through.

[denny]

An all Munich AIPA is one of my favorites.

[gordonstrong]

An all Munich AIPA is one of my favorites.

How do you adjust the hops compared with a 2-row/pale-based version?  Or do you just like the balance with the increased malt flavors?

[denny]

How do you adjust the hops compared with a 2-row/pale-based version?  Or do you just like the balance with the increased malt flavors?

I don't try to translate a pale malt version to a Munich version.  I just formulate the recipe differently.  I will usually choose a more "biting" hop, like Chinook to "break through" the increased maltiness.  I might look at upping my BU:GU ratio a bit, also.

[gordonstrong]

Yup, same experiences.  Just checking.

[bluesman]

The aroma and flavor profile for an APA is a pretty wide, especially nowadays. I've had so many APA's over the last couple of years that it's hard to really nail down a prime example but the one thing that stands out in my mind is the balance. Most examples are fairly well balanced between maltiness and hoppiness. I find sweetness to be far and few between.

I prefer my APA's to have a moderately strong hop aroma with a supporting malt aroma. Likewise in the flavor, I prefer an edge to the hoppiness in the balance but more malty than sweet (malt profile).

With this in mind I like the malty blends like 2-row and vienna or munich and a splash of medium crystal to instill some color. Then target an BU:GU ratio around 1:1 with about 30-40 in bittering units.

edit: I just did a double take as I realized the topic is AIPA not APA. My post is based on an APA as I indicated. Sorry for the confusion.

[gmac]

Thanks.  I think I'll start out with Gordon's suggested ratios for this first one.
6 lbs 2-row
3 lbs pilsner
1 lb vienna

Hops I'm considering are:
1 oz Cascade pellets FWH
1/2 to 1 oz Northern Brewer or Perle (which would be better - I have lots of these) at 60 - or are bittering hops as necessary with the FWH?
1 oz Cascade at 20 min
1/2 oz Cascade leaf at flameout
1/2 oz Amarillo leaf at flameout
1/2 oz Cascade leaf dry-hopped in secondary
1/2 oz Amarillo leaf dry hopped in secondary

Apparently I was planning on brewing more lagers because I only have 1 oz of Amarillo but lots of Tettnanger, Hallertau and Perle.  I also have lots of East Kent Golding, Fuggle and 1 oz of Willamette but I assume I should keep these for my bitters and pale ales.

My water is fairly high in carbonates which is why I usually try to get some darker malt in the blend but I'll leave the crystal out this time (even though it just feels wrong...)

[denny]

Yup, same experiences.  Just checking.

In my latest version, rather than going all Munich, I did about 80% Munich and 20% Special Aromatic.  To me that malt has a lot of the qualities of Vienna.

[gordonstrong]

1/2 to 1 oz Northern Brewer or Perle (which would be better - I have lots of these) at 60 - or are bittering hops as necessary with the FWH?

Dunno. Plug the AA%s into brewing software and see how many IBUs you get.  I'd use the Perle myself, if you need it.  If Cascade is in the same AA range, I'd use that instead, if you have enough.

My water is fairly high in carbonates which is why I usually try to get some darker malt in the blend but I'll leave the crystal out this time (even though it just feels wrong...)

I'd do something about the carbonates from a flavor standpoint, if nothing else. 

[hopfenundmalz]

I also have lots of East Kent Golding, Fuggle and 1 oz of Willamette but I assume I should keep these for my bitters and pale ales.

If you have 'lots', think about an British IPA.  You need lots of those for an IPA, but you have them.