Author Topic: Oxidation question  (Read 1778 times)

Offline gymrat

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Oxidation question
« on: May 26, 2011, 08:04:12 PM »
I read in "How to Brew" that getting air in the preboil wort can cause your beer to suffer oxidation. This does not make sense to me as it seems like the bubbles in the boil would do the same thing. Has anybody had any experience with this?
Ralph's Brewery
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Offline tubercle

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 08:11:45 PM »
I read in "How to Brew" that getting air in the preboil wort can cause your beer to suffer oxidation. This does not make sense to me as it seems like the bubbles in the boil would do the same thing. Has anybody had any experience with this?

AKA HSA (Hot Side Aireation) = Debunked Myth.
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Offline johnf

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 09:28:07 PM »
I read in "How to Brew" that getting air in the preboil wort can cause your beer to suffer oxidation. This does not make sense to me as it seems like the bubbles in the boil would do the same thing. Has anybody had any experience with this?

AKA HSA (Hot Side Aireation) = Debunked Myth.

In the imaginations of homebrewers.

What exactly has been debunked?

Are you oxidized compounds are not created in hot wort?
Are you saying that they are but that they are removed before they can create staling compounds?
Are you saying that they are but that they are not capable of creating staling compounds?

What exactly do you mean?

Offline BarleynYeast

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 10:38:55 PM »
Here is a good Brew Strong with guest Dr. Bamforth. The topic is HSA.

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/475

Offline denny

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2011, 07:57:45 AM »
I read in "How to Brew" that getting air in the preboil wort can cause your beer to suffer oxidation. This does not make sense to me as it seems like the bubbles in the boil would do the same thing. Has anybody had any experience with this?

AKA HSA (Hot Side Aireation) = Debunked Myth.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I do think it's not the problem it's been made out to be in the past.
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Offline Will's Swill

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2011, 07:58:26 AM »
I read in "How to Brew" that getting air in the preboil wort can cause your beer to suffer oxidation. This does not make sense to me as it seems like the bubbles in the boil would do the same thing. Has anybody had any experience with this?

Finally!  Another HSA debate!  My popcorn was getting stale.  :)

Not to worry about the boil, though.  The bubbles in your boil are steam, not air.
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Offline gymrat

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 08:02:38 AM »
OK here is my concern. The heat resistant hose I bought doesn't fit the barb on my ball valve. So I have been just draining my mash tun into my kettle about 18 inches below it free style. I am concerned after reading that chapter that I might possibly have ruined my beer.
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Offline Will's Swill

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 08:10:50 AM »
I seriously doubt that your beer is ruined.  I see this kind of free fall from lauter tun to kettle in commercial breweries.  It may mean that your beer will age more quickly, but that just means you need to drink it faster.  ;D
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Offline johnf

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2011, 08:24:54 AM »
OK here is my concern. The heat resistant hose I bought doesn't fit the barb on my ball valve. So I have been just draining my mash tun into my kettle about 18 inches below it free style. I am concerned after reading that chapter that I might possibly have ruined my beer.

I don't think that is much of a problem. I think shearing forces (from stirring the mash) are more of a concern. Commercial systems are designed to stir low-shear, for good reason. I have seen few homebrew designs that are likely to be a big problem.

If you carefully listen to the Bamforth interview on Brewstrong, his belief is that oxidized compounds can develop on the hot side but that if the fermentation is vigorous, they don't survive it and don't stale the beer downstream. He also believes there are some positive effects of HSA. Good interview, but if you walk away saying HSA is a myth, you didn't understand what he was saying.

I believe HSA is a very minor issue in homebrewing, but I do not believe it is a myth. I certainly don't believe it has been proven to be a myth.

Offline bluesman

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2011, 08:27:54 AM »
HSA and it's effects on the finished beer are poorly understood. I understand there are continuing studies being performed to gather data in an effort to better understand this reaction. Actually, the boiling action removes most of the oxygen from the wort. We then introduce oxygen that the yeast will uptake for use in reproduction. These are all very complex reactions that can be manipulated to some degree. I wouldn't worry too much about HSA as long as your fermentation process is healthy and sound. The yeast will digest most of the oxygen carrying compounds during the fermentation.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2011, 09:20:02 AM »
I don't think that is much of a problem. I think shearing forces (from stirring the mash) are more of a concern. Commercial systems are designed to stir low-shear, for good reason. I have seen few homebrew designs that are likely to be a big problem.

Shearing?  Are you talking about someone whipping the mash vigorously?  I do try not to get much cavitation when I stir the mash.

For the OP, I'd get a hose or at least situate the kettle so the liquid draining out contacts the side rather than falling all the way to the bottom and whipping things up more.
Lennie
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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2011, 09:53:26 AM »
I don't think that is much of a problem. I think shearing forces (from stirring the mash) are more of a concern. Commercial systems are designed to stir low-shear, for good reason. I have seen few homebrew designs that are likely to be a big problem.

Shearing?  Are you talking about someone whipping the mash vigorously?  I do try not to get much cavitation when I stir the mash.

For the OP, I'd get a hose or at least situate the kettle so the liquid draining out contacts the side rather than falling all the way to the bottom and whipping things up more.

It's the one time when you don't want to whip it good. ;D

Offline tom

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 10:50:25 AM »
I read in "How to Brew" that getting air in the preboil wort can cause your beer to suffer oxidation. This does not make sense to me as it seems like the bubbles in the boil would do the same thing. Has anybody had any experience with this?
the bubbles are water vapor
Brew on

Offline gmwren

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 01:28:34 PM »
Can't wait 'til this turns into the "Olive Oil Discussion."
Just stirring the pot...

Offline tubercle

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Re: Oxidation question
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2011, 02:52:11 PM »
AKA HSA (Hot Side Aireation) = Debunked Myth.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I do think it's not the problem it's been made out to be in the past.

 I guess that is a little too far :D

 I guess I should have said that its not as big of a problem that it is made out to be. :-[

 Its certainly not on my list.
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