Author Topic: NASA Crawler  (Read 2345 times)

Offline dbeechum

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2011, 08:54:51 AM »
Being a transplanted Florida nerd, I can't tell you how disheartening it was in the 80's to watch NASA's budget constantly get dorked with like a political football by both parties.

The space station was a perfect example. They'd have a budget for it, have a plan, the budget would get cut, they'd have to delay and replan. Time and time again. Of course, the damn thing ended up costing a ton more because of this and the pols would point ot that the thing was oodles and boodles of dollars over the line. *Sigh*

When you combine that with the public's perception that NASA gets too much money cause they think it receives a whopping ~24% of the federal budget. (For reference, the DOD receives ~21%). No wonder this sort of stuff happens. Ugh.

I want my badass science and feeling of "woo, I can't believe we did that!"
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Online denny

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2011, 10:35:39 AM »
I want my badass science and feeling of "woo, I can't believe we did that!"

Yep!  Knowledge for the sake of knowledge.  Some say we can't afford it.  I say we can't afford NOT to do it!
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2011, 11:20:41 AM »
I want my badass science and feeling of "woo, I can't believe we did that!"

Yep!  Knowledge for the sake of knowledge.  Some say we can't afford it.  I say we can't afford NOT to do it!

Too true Denny.  Without science being done for the sake of science being done, we would not have the computer, the internet, TV, radio, MP3s and MP3 players or beer forums.  Just to name a few.

NASA has gotten yanked around and that really upsets me but the US is still the leader in pure science, despite what the lame stream media tells us.  It just happens in corporate labs or corporate funded university research centers now.  Someday we will mass produce things here in the States again but that's another discussion.

I believe it really is time for private industry to take over space launch capability because NASA will never be able to produce a cost effective solution.  Their work is to produce cutting edge work.  Cutting edge is really expensive.  They've gotten into space and made it fairly routine so their next target is further out.  Private industry will make it cheaper, faster and more reliable.

Paul
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2011, 12:56:45 PM »
I want my badass science and feeling of "woo, I can't believe we did that!"

Yep!  Knowledge for the sake of knowledge.  Some say we can't afford it.  I say we can't afford NOT to do it!

Too true Denny.  Without science being done for the sake of science being done, we would not have the computer, the internet, TV, radio, MP3s and MP3 players or beer forums.  Just to name a few.

NASA has gotten yanked around and that really upsets me but the US is still the leader in pure science, despite what the lame stream media tells us.  It just happens in corporate labs or corporate funded university research centers now.  Someday we will mass produce things here in the States again but that's another discussion.

I believe it really is time for private industry to take over space launch capability because NASA will never be able to produce a cost effective solution.  Their work is to produce cutting edge work.  Cutting edge is really expensive.  They've gotten into space and made it fairly routine so their next target is further out.  Private industry will make it cheaper, faster and more reliable.

Paul

Paul, Good point about cutting edge stuff. I would be nervous to get on a corporate designed, built and operated space craft but It would be nice to have the opportunity to be nervous about it.

I want to see a person on Mars. I know they probably wouldn't be able to survive a return trip what with cosmic radiation and all but there must be someone willing.
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Offline punatic

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2011, 01:03:29 PM »
Where are you from in Florida Drew?

I saw the headline for this and thought TFW? (Yoda speak).  Then I read the article and think Jack Schmitt makes a good point.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/05/28/former-astronaut-and-senator-wants-dismantle-nasa
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2011, 01:22:49 PM »
NASA has gotten yanked around and that really upsets me but the US is still the leader in pure science, despite what the lame stream media tells us.  It just happens in corporate labs or corporate funded university research centers now.  Someday we will mass produce things here in the States again but that's another discussion.
I mostly agree with your sentiments, but it's not so rosy as far as being the leader in pure science.  We're still ahead, but the gap is narrowing.  Corporate labs and corporate funding generally don't support basic research for the sake of learning, they do it to make money.  There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but we still need to do research that has no obvious way to ever make any money, because that's how the major advances get made down the road - the groundwork has already been laid.  Much of that corporate research is considered a trade secret and is never published too, so rather than make it available for everyone to learn, we have other labs doing the same research and wasting time and resources.

Our students are falling behind in science, and if our research programs are still superior it is partly because many of the best and brightest from around the world come here to study.  Even a lot of our research is being outsourced to other countries, I know the head of a non-academic research facility in the US who also maintains a lab in China because he can get well trained scientists to do the research and China pays for it. :-\
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Offline punatic

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2011, 01:30:51 PM »

When you combine that with the public's perception that NASA gets too much money cause they think it receives a whopping ~24% of the federal budget. (For reference, the DOD receives ~21%). No wonder this sort of stuff happens. Ugh.


At the peak of the construction phase of the Apollo Program in 1966 NASA's annual budget reached it's highest point at 4.41% of the Federal budget. 

It is currently at aproximately 0.58% of the Federal budget, but that's hard to say for sure because Congress failed to write a Federal budget for the current year.
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Offline dbeechum

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2011, 01:59:12 PM »
I'm originally from the Orlando area, Apopka and what not.

I remember as a kid the incredible pride everyone had when the shuttle rolled out. I remember standing between the wings of my school on the bright blue cold day that we lost Challenger.

Shaking things up in NASA would be good, but I get wary that folks will use it as an opportune moment to pull the whole scaffolding down.

Corporate research is great where it falls in line with a company's profit motive in the short term. (A problem these days in a great many corporate decisions, not just research) It's bad for supporting answering fundamental questions that have no immediately apparent use. For an example of that look at the pharm market where there are a solutions for rare (and not so rare) diseases that won't get funded/brought to market because the yielded profit isn't in line with perceived needs.

Tom's absolutely right about what's happening with science right now in this country. So many of the graduate students in our top flight schools are from out of the country and instead of staying are now returning to their home countries.

I  remember being ragingly angry at the cancellation of the SSC in Texas back in 1993. (Nothing like MIT for fostering science rage amongst young geeks). Yes, it would have cost ~12B, but would have been more powerful and yielded incredible results more than 15 years ahead of the LHC in Switzerland. Oddly, that's one of the few times NASA came out ahead because they kept the funding for the ISS instead.

I takes me science seriously and hate when human issues get in the way.
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Offline punatic

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2011, 02:27:34 PM »
I'm originally from the Orlando area, Apopka and what not.

I remember as a kid the incredible pride everyone had when the shuttle rolled out. I remember standing between the wings of my school on the bright blue cold day that we lost Challenger.

I  remember being ragingly angry at the cancellation of the SSC in Texas back in 1993. (Nothing like MIT for fostering science rage amongst young geeks). Yes, it would have cost ~12B, but would have been more powerful and yielded incredible results more than 15 years ahead of the LHC in Switzerland. Oddly, that's one of the few times NASA came out ahead because they kept the funding for the ISS instead.

I takes me science seriously and hate when human issues get in the way.

I was standing on the shore of the Indian River in Titusville that cold day in January 1986 - 11 miles from pad 39B.  At first I thought the orbiter had detached from the stack and had returned to the SLF. Through the smoke I saw a chase plane land on runway 33 and thought it was the Challenger. One of the lowest days in my life.

I was studying US Government at Valencia Community College in 1993.  I was assigned to watch C-SPAN. I watched live, the vote in Congress that pulled funding for the Super-conducting Super Collider.  Almost in the same breath Congress barely voted to continue funding for the International Space Station.  I remember sitting there stunned - thinking that I must be watching a Saturday Night Live skit, not the US Congress live.  It was surreal how easily members of Congress voted to throw away the billions already invested in the SCC.

Science is absolutely about human issues.  Our planet cannot support the population of humans on it without scientific innovation.

Ellison Onizuka was from Hawaii Island, and an Eagle Scout in our Boy Scout district.  We are very proud of that.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 02:44:54 PM by punatic »
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Offline SpanishCastleAle

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2011, 05:59:48 AM »
Here a 13+ minute tribute video to Endeavour.

That water tower you see in some of these pics?  It dumps all over the pad during launch (you'll see it in the video) and is for sound suppression.  The shuttle and cargo can be damaged by reflected sound from the SRBs and the water prevents that.  Much of the 'cloud' around the pad during launch is steam.

Offline punatic

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2011, 11:28:54 PM »
Here a 13+ minute tribute video to Endeavour.

That water tower you see in some of these pics?  It dumps all over the pad during launch (you'll see it in the video) and is for sound suppression.  The shuttle and cargo can be damaged by reflected sound from the SRBs and the water prevents that.  Much of the 'cloud' around the pad during launch is steam.

Wow, I missed the link to the Endeavour tribute on my first read.  Wow!  Excellent!  I like the homage to each of the components of the stack.

What really galls me is that the very symbol of American exceptionalism is being done away with, and not replaced, by those who travel the world apologizing for American exceptionalism, when the world looks to America to be exceptional and lead the way.

Below is a link to one of the best launch videos I have seen.  It is from a hand-held camera on the roof of the VAB.  I really like how the pitch of the shockwaves red-shift as the rockets accelerate downrange.  It takes me back to all of the launches I watched in person.  Being there in person is an overwhelming experience; it makes my laugh and cry at the same time.  Man, would I love ride the stack!

Discovery - STS-131 Launch
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2011, 09:48:23 AM »
What really galls me is that the very symbol of American exceptionalism is being done away with, and not replaced, by those who travel the world apologizing for American exceptionalism, when the world looks to America to be exceptional and lead the way.
The timeline to retire the shuttle was laid out in 2004.  The blame for a lack of replacement falls on every congress since the first launch for failing to sufficiently fund the research needed to develop a replacement.
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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2011, 07:50:58 AM »

What really galls me is that the very symbol of American exceptionalism is being done away with, and not replaced, by those who travel the world apologizing for American exceptionalism, when the world looks to America to be exceptional and lead the way.



I agree 100%.

Offline punatic

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Re: NASA Crawler
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2011, 05:04:02 PM »
What really galls me is that the very symbol of American exceptionalism is being done away with, and not replaced, by those who travel the world apologizing for American exceptionalism, when the world looks to America to be exceptional and lead the way.
The timeline to retire the shuttle was laid out in 2004.  The blame for a lack of replacement falls on every congress since the first launch for failing to sufficiently fund the research needed to develop a replacement.

NASA Constellation
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