Author Topic: Full Boil Process ?  (Read 2834 times)

Offline duboman

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Full Boil Process ?
« on: June 13, 2011, 01:51:10 PM »
New to the forum and thanks in advance! I have read several posts regarding full boil but wanted to try to get a full summary as we are planning a session for this weekend. Relatively new with only 30 gallons of partial boils under our belt but all have been a great success. Here Goes with what I've been told and am looking for confirmation and additional tips if any:
1. start with only 2 gal. water to steep grains for 30 minutes as usual
2. Add to pot 4.5 gallons of additional water and bring to boil ( I was told to expect 1.5gal.  loss over 60 minute boil?)
3. Once at boil use the late extract method, add 1/2 at beginning of boil with the additional half at the 30-45 minute mark
4. Hop additions to take place at recipe intervals as normal
5. Complete the boil, cool the wort, place in primary, take gravity, add yeast and be patient
6. Transfer to secondary when time is right and begin dry hopping

I have been using recipe kits from Midwest Supplies, mostly ales, wheats and IPA's. Their kits have been spot on and each beer has turned out terrific. I am using a 7.5 gallon stainless kettle. I have been told and have read that by going full boil and using late extract I will have much better hop utilization and less darkening of the beers being brewed, In addition I have been told that my somewhat irregular gravity readings will probably stabilize and be more spot on since there is no dilution of the wort.

This forum has been a great source of information and I appreciate all your advice and suggestions. I will definitely post back the our results when sampled. Cheers!
Peace....Love......Beer......

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Offline etbrew

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 02:28:50 PM »
Process looks good except I would not use the late extract method.  With a full boil there really isn't much need to do the late extract method.  You would for sure get better hop utilization but I don't think it would effect the color of your beer much. 

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 02:51:27 PM »
I would add that most of the time it is not necesary to do a secondary at all, except, possibly, when dry hopping. and I am not sure why you would only add the 2 gallons for steeping except that it will get to 170 quicker. you might want to hold back say 1 gallon for 'sparging' the steeping grains.

the 1.5 gallon boil off is something you will have to figure out for your system. I generally only get about 1 gallon per hour boil off.

Boiling the 6.5-7 gallons in a 7.5 gallon pot you will want to watch that boild VERY carefully as you are in danger of a boil over until it settles down, also when adding your 60 minute hops there can be a secondary foam up. you can use various foam control products but I generally just keep an eye on it and stir when it starts to get out of hand. I have seen people use a spray bottle of water to control boil overs and that might work as well.

and welcome to the forum. you will like it here, it's nice.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline hokerer

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 05:03:09 PM »
Good advice you're getting so far...

With that much wort in a 7.5 gallon pot, watch it like a hawk so it doesn't boil over. 

Skip the extract late - the whole point of it is to avoid the too high gravity that results from all the extract in the reduced amount of water - full boil gets rid of that problem.

Yes, you'll get higher hop utilization.  Depending on how the recipe was originally calculated, that may result in either correct recipe bitterness if it was calculated at normal gravity OR higher than expected bitterness if it was calculated expecting concentrated gravity.

Somewhere between 1 and 1.5 gallons boiloff is probably a good place to start.  After a couple of brews you should end up gettting your system dialed in.

And yes, go ahead and skip the secondary - no need.
Joe

Offline euge

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 08:29:24 PM »
I generally do full boils when doing an extract batch. However, have seen no problems with a partial boil as extreme as 2 gallon boil with a 4 gallon top-up. The difference in hop utilization is minimal. Doing full boils without knowing the boil-off rate is still shooting in the dark and probably won't help your gravity issues. At least with a partial you can top up to desired volume/gravity.

Anyway, it's great you're asking these questions.

The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline duboman

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 01:57:17 PM »
Good advice you're getting so far...

With that much wort in a 7.5 gallon pot, watch it like a hawk so it doesn't boil over. 

Skip the extract late - the whole point of it is to avoid the too high gravity that results from all the extract in the reduced amount of water - full boil gets rid of that problem.

Yes, you'll get higher hop utilization.  Depending on how the recipe was originally calculated, that may result in either correct recipe bitterness if it was calculated at normal gravity OR higher than expected bitterness if it was calculated expecting concentrated gravity.

Somewhere between 1 and 1.5 gallons boiloff is probably a good place to start.  After a couple of brews you should end up gettting your system dialed in.

And yes, go ahead and skip the secondary - no need.

Thanks for the great replies!
I have done some additional homework and here is what I have found: The folks that put together the recipes informed me the hop concentrations are calculated for partial boils. I am assuming then that my IBU's will wind up higher in a full boil?

In addition they stated that they try to do late extract whenever they can so I think for the first run we will try it, evaluate upon sampling and tweak accordingly if we do another run based upon the finished product.

As for the secondary, this recipe does call for dry hopping so we will be doing it. In addition we have been doing secondaries to free up our primary so we can turn around and brew more beer at a faster clip, we also have been getting a clearer beer.

AS for the boil overs, we are aware, haven't had one yet but we monitor closely when it starts and at hop additions. I am pretty comfortable with the 6.5 gallons in the 7.5 gallon kettle. I am going to go on your all's advice about the 1-1.5 gallon loss estimate on the boil. The worst case is I get a little more or less beer and can make the notes accordingly to dial in the system.

You are all right! This is a lot of fun and as my wife, a chef said, "it's like cooking, honey, there is no right or wrong, just trial and error" so that's what I'm going with and so far the 5 varieties we have brewed so far have all been outstanding so I'm sure the full boils will be even better!

I'll get back to you all when we pop one open and let you know how it worked!
Peace....Love......Beer......

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the craft of beer since 2010

Offline jeffy

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 02:14:30 PM »
"it's like cooking, honey, there is no right or wrong, just trial and error"

That's the best advice of all.  When you said that the recipe called for dry-hopping I wanted to say, no, you're the one who calls for dry-hopping!
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 06:07:16 PM »
As for the secondary, this recipe does call for dry hopping so we will be doing it. In addition we have been doing secondaries to free up our primary so we can turn around and brew more beer at a faster clip, we also have been getting a clearer beer.

Freeing up primary space for more brew is a perfectly reasonable justification for doing a secondary :)
Joe

Offline duboman

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 04:55:06 AM »
As for the secondary, this recipe does call for dry hopping so we will be doing it. In addition we have been doing secondaries to free up our primary so we can turn around and brew more beer at a faster clip, we also have been getting a clearer beer.

Freeing up primary space for more brew is a perfectly reasonable justification for doing a secondary :)

Had one additional clarification/question. Regarding the suggestion from someone about only steeping the grains in 2 gallons and then adding the additional the reason given had something to do with the release of tannins and altering the taste of the beer? Not sure I understand what that means or if it should even be a concern. Obviously if there is no harm in steeping in the full amount of water I would prefer that. Can someone please clarify this suggestion? Thanks!
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2011, 06:56:23 AM »
Had one additional clarification/question. Regarding the suggestion from someone about only steeping the grains in 2 gallons and then adding the additional the reason given had something to do with the release of tannins and altering the taste of the beer? Not sure I understand what that means or if it should even be a concern. Obviously if there is no harm in steeping in the full amount of water I would prefer that. Can someone please clarify this suggestion? Thanks!

Tannin extraction can become an issue when the temperature exceeds 170F and the pH gets above 6.0.  The pH of most normal tap water is greater than 6.  Grains, in general, when added to the water, lower the pH (darker grains moreso than lighter).  The issue of how much water to use for steeping derives from the fact that the grains can only lower the pH by so much.  They'll have a much easier time lowering the pH of 2 gallons of water than they would trying to lower all 5 gallons.
Joe

Offline duboman

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 07:36:29 AM »
Had one additional clarification/question. Regarding the suggestion from someone about only steeping the grains in 2 gallons and then adding the additional the reason given had something to do with the release of tannins and altering the taste of the beer? Not sure I understand what that means or if it should even be a concern. Obviously if there is no harm in steeping in the full amount of water I would prefer that. Can someone please clarify this suggestion? Thanks!

Tannin extraction can become an issue when the temperature exceeds 170F and the pH gets above 6.0.  The pH of most normal tap water is greater than 6.  Grains, in general, when added to the water, lower the pH (darker grains moreso than lighter).  The issue of how much water to use for steeping derives from the fact that the grains can only lower the pH by so much.  They'll have a much easier time lowering the pH of 2 gallons of water than they would trying to lower all 5 gallons

« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 02:04:17 PM by duboman »
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2011, 10:02:57 AM »
Had one additional clarification/question. Regarding the suggestion from someone about only steeping the grains in 2 gallons and then adding the additional the reason given had something to do with the release of tannins and altering the taste of the beer? Not sure I understand what that means or if it should even be a concern. Obviously if there is no harm in steeping in the full amount of water I would prefer that. Can someone please clarify this suggestion? Thanks!

Tannin extraction can become an issue when the temperature exceeds 170F and the pH gets above 6.0.  The pH of most normal tap water is greater than 6.  Grains, in general, when added to the water, lower the pH (darker grains moreso than lighter).  The issue of how much water to use for steeping derives from the fact that the grains can only lower the pH by so much.  They'll have a much easier time lowering the pH of 2 gallons of water than they would trying to lower all 5 gallons.

Ahh that explains it. It was me who asked the question about steeping in only 2 gallons. now I know
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Offline duboman

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2011, 02:03:38 PM »
Had one additional clarification/question. Regarding the suggestion from someone about only steeping the grains in 2 gallons and then adding the additional the reason given had something to do with the release of tannins and altering the taste of the beer? Not sure I understand what that means or if it should even be a concern. Obviously if there is no harm in steeping in the full amount of water I would prefer that. Can someone please clarify this suggestion? Thanks!

Tannin extraction can become an issue when the temperature exceeds 170F and the pH gets above 6.0.  The pH of most normal tap water is greater than 6.  Grains, in general, when added to the water, lower the pH (darker grains moreso than lighter).  The issue of how much water to use for steeping derives from the fact that the grains can only lower the pH by so much.  They'll have a much easier time lowering the pH of 2 gallons of water than they would trying to lower all 5 gallons


So then would you recommend steeping in the 2 gallons and then adding the additional water or just steep in the full 6 gallons? Thanks!
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2011, 04:34:53 PM »
So then would you recommend steeping in the 2 gallons and then adding the additional water or just steep in the full 6 gallons? Thanks!

Tannin extraction is something you want to avoid so I'd say go with the 2 gallons for the steep.  Once you remove the grain (specifically the grain husks which is primarily what the tannins come from), then you can add the rest of the water.
Joe

Offline duboman

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Re: Full Boil Process ?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2011, 06:11:06 AM »
So then would you recommend steeping in the 2 gallons and then adding the additional water or just steep in the full 6 gallons? Thanks!

Tannin extraction is something you want to avoid so I'd say go with the 2 gallons for the steep.  Once you remove the grain (specifically the grain husks which is primarily what the tannins come from), then you can add the rest of the water.

The recipe I have has the grains already crushed, do not know if that makes a difference but should I still do the 2 gallons and then top off after the steep. In addition, if so I am assuming it makes no difference whether the additional water added is cold or already hot outside of the time to get to boil?
Peace....Love......Beer......

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