Author Topic: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com  (Read 1165 times)

Offline microbrewwater.com

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Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« on: June 17, 2011, 04:02:34 PM »
Let me know if I can help anyone with their water quality questions

Ask Jim...

Offline gmac

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 04:10:35 PM »
Jim.
Although not a direct water quality question, here is something that I did today that got me wondering.

I mashed with 22 quarts of my regular tap water and forgot to add a Campden tablet to it before I mashed in.  Could I have added one to the wort that I got from the grain?  Not a big deal as I've forgotten before and things have been fine but it got me wondering if there was anything I could have or should have done at that point.
Thanks
Graham

Offline denny

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 04:25:08 PM »
Jim.
Although not a direct water quality question, here is something that I did today that got me wondering.

I mashed with 22 quarts of my regular tap water and forgot to add a Campden tablet to it before I mashed in.  Could I have added one to the wort that I got from the grain?  Not a big deal as I've forgotten before and things have been fine but it got me wondering if there was anything I could have or should have done at that point.
Thanks
Graham


Well, since Jim hasn't answered....nope.  By that point, whatever damage can be done will have been done.
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Offline euge

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 07:20:53 PM »
Denny told me one time I could have tossed the tablet into the mash. But after the lauter it's too late.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline gmac

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 09:30:57 PM »
I put it in the mash once too because I forgot.  The beer turned out fine but I don't know if I actually "saved" it or did nothing but make myself feel good.

Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 09:35:49 PM »
Good to see that Jim ( SPAM) has offer his help and nice to see the company has offered his help.

I will help you if you really have some water questions, If I can't help you I will send you in the right direction.

Who you going to trust?
Tribute Brewing

Offline punatic

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 10:18:36 PM »
Aloha Jim,
I have a five stage RO system that produces 4gpm of permeate at 50% recovery.  The feedwater conductivity is steady at 5600 µS/cm.  The membrane feed pressure is steady at 110 psi.  Over the last two months the permeate conductivity has risen from 400 µS/cm to 740 µS/cm.  The system runs 20 hours per day (~ 5,000 gpd).

Any thoughts on what's happening?

FWIW this water is used for irrigation not brew water.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 10:21:16 PM by punatic »
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Offline microbrewwater.com

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 06:07:37 AM »
Hello Punatic ... Sorry for the delay on the road again .
Questions: What type of pre filtration are you using before the 5 stage RO?
When was your last filter change?
Do you use anti scalent?
What is the water temp?
How many membranes and what size?

It sounds like the membrane is scaling which will cause fouling, loss of flow, etc. Scaling is normally caused by calcium and magnesium. If you can give more info I can direct you to a solution.

Jim

Offline microbrewwater.com

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 06:33:40 AM »
Sorry again for the delay Re: Campden (sodium metabisulfite) tabs

Sounds like you found your answer.

Are you using the tabs strictly for Dechlorinating the water before brewing or ?

I'm curious as to what the chlorine level is on your water supply. Is it a well or city supply? Do you use and kind of uv sterilization or carbon filtration?

Thanks

Jim

Offline microbrewwater.com

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 06:37:59 AM »
Any

Offline microbrewwater.com

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 06:48:12 AM »
Definitely not spamming, I've been in the water industry since 1984 I am  curious to learn all I can about brewing and how my equipment can help make a better beer. I will probably have alot of questions for you guys shortly when I give my own home brew a try.  I have a new nano system that is working really well with a brewery out here in calif that had the usual nasty water.


Thanks
Jim

Offline euge

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 10:02:04 AM »
Welcome Jim! This is the place to come to for your homebrewing questions. LOL We are very diligent about keeping the spammers' content away so please don't be offended. ;)

My Texas water sucks (Edwards Aquifer) without treatment. It's decent for drinking but is only fit for darker styles. As a consequence I've installed a Whirlpool whole-house softener and an under-sink RO unit. The softener is 3.5 years old. Should I be thinking about changing the resin tank?
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline punatic

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 11:43:47 AM »
Hello Punatic ... Sorry for the delay on the road again .
Questions: What type of pre filtration are you using before the 5 stage RO?
When was your last filter change?
Do you use anti scalent?
What is the water temp?
How many membranes and what size?

It sounds like the membrane is scaling which will cause fouling, loss of flow, etc. Scaling is normally caused by calcium and magnesium. If you can give more info I can direct you to a solution.

Jim

The system has a two stage prefilter system;  a multimedia prefilter that auto-backwashes at 350 hours of runtime, followed by a catridge filter with a 5 micron filter element.  I changed the filter element about two weeks ago.  It was not very dirty, the MMF  catches most of the solids.

Yes, the system uses a phosphonate antiscalent (Avista Vitec 3000).  Antiscalent is fed with a metering pump set to maintain ~3 mg/L.

There are five 4" pressure vessels configured in series.  Each vessel houses one spiral-wound membrane.  There is no concentrate recycle, or bypass blending.

Water temp from the well is constant at 76⁰ F.

I do not suspect there is scaling or fouling.  The membrane feed pressure has been a flat line on the trend charts - 110psi.  If there were scaling or fouling the pressure would increase to maintain the 4gpm permeate flow rate.  Plus I keep the recovery down at 50%.

I suspect a bad seal in one of the pressure vessels, however when a seal has failed in the past the permeate conductivity spiked up quickly.  This increase has been a gradual climb over the last two months.  Maybe a tear in a membrane?

The 4" pressure vessels are a pia to work inside of;  much tighter than standard 6" vessels.  Since you offered (and I looked at your web site) I thought I'd get another mind thinking about what the problem might be, before I start opening up pressure vessels.

740 µS/cm is not the end of the world, but the water is also used for swimming pool make up.  The woman who maintains the pool mentioned she has noticed a change in her chemical feed rates  ::)

Thanks for your help!

Carl
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Offline microbrewwater.com

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2011, 03:33:33 PM »
Euge

Good Cation soft water resin should last  8-10 years but I would check with Sears to see what type of resin they use. High inlet raw water chlorine kills the life of the resin as well.  Do you have a decent soft water test kit? Depending on the test kit you are looking for less than 1 grain per gallon of hardness or 17.18 PPM.

Offline microbrewwater.com

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Re: Water problems? Ask the water guys at microbrewwater.com
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2011, 05:11:00 PM »
Carl I'll post later when I get in I have some ides

Jim