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Author Topic: Potential brewpub location  (Read 2423 times)

Offline MDixon

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 01:26:51 PM »
Let's run some math...15 gallon Sabco = 12 gallon finished batch size, just a little over 2 corny kegs. 96 pints of beer which is takes 2 weeks to a month to turn - same exact amount many of us make. Now think about how many styles do you plan to have? 4?

Most brewpubs find a 3 bbl system (~100gallons) is too small to fit their needs. 7bbl is more the norm and nowadays 15 bbl is what most desire. You could do a Sabco, but it would take a similar amount of effort to brew on it as it would a 3bbl system and you would make 8X the beer.

A SABCO would be $6K per their website (only giving you a brewhouse with an extremely limited capacity) while you could purchase a full 3.5bbl brewery for $45K
http://www.nabrewing.com/complete/0512103_5bbleconobrewerysys.shtml
7bbl for $60K
http://www.nabrewing.com/complete/0423107bblbrewerysys.shtml

Before I spent the money on a Sabco, I'd just get some kettles and burners find a good welder and build your own - but I am a cobble it together kinda guy.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 11:37:54 PM »
Let's run some math...15 gallon Sabco = 12 gallon finished batch size, just a little over 2 corny kegs. 96 pints of beer which is takes 2 weeks to a month to turn - same exact amount many of us make. Now think about how many styles do you plan to have? 4?

Most brewpubs find a 3 bbl system (~100gallons) is too small to fit their needs. 7bbl is more the norm and nowadays 15 bbl is what most desire. You could do a Sabco, but it would take a similar amount of effort to brew on it as it would a 3bbl system and you would make 8X the beer.

A SABCO would be $6K per their website (only giving you a brewhouse with an extremely limited capacity) while you could purchase a full 3.5bbl brewery for $45K
http://www.nabrewing.com/complete/0512103_5bbleconobrewerysys.shtml
7bbl for $60K
http://www.nabrewing.com/complete/0423107bblbrewerysys.shtml

Before I spent the money on a Sabco, I'd just get some kettles and burners find a good welder and build your own - but I am a cobble it together kinda guy.

I absolutely agree that DIY is the best way to go here, but I've already tried to contact a few TIG/MIG welders I've found in the classifieds, not a single one of the six I contacted got back to me. But, I'm going to visit a microbrewery on Saturday, I'll ask him how much volume he does.

For whatever silly reason, I was thinking that the sabco system had an OUTPUT volume of 15 gal... fail.
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Offline akr71

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 05:45:21 AM »
If you can legally brew at home and sell it, why not find a couple of bars and/or restoraunts that are not under contract to a brewery and supply them with a keg or two.  Develop a reputation and brand recogintion and go from there.  No mortgage, no restoraunt to manage and you could probably do it with the Sabco system and a bunch of fementers.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 06:03:43 AM »
If you can legally brew at home and sell it, why not find a couple of bars and/or restoraunts that are not under contract to a brewery and supply them with a keg or two.  Develop a reputation and brand recogintion and go from there.  No mortgage, no restoraunt to manage and you could probably do it with the Sabco system and a bunch of fementers.

I think that's a good direction to go in for right now. I've already had one store (an American grocery store) say they're interested in carrying the beer.

What's the best way to do labeling? Nothing fancy, just something nice.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2011, 06:10:13 AM »
if you get really serious about this, I'd suggest joining the BA (pro side of our AHA organization). there is a lot of info, and their forum is all folks on the brewpub & packaging micro side of things. it'd be worth the small cost.

Mark, good idea. I've just paid for a one-year membership. Let's see how things go.
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Offline richardt

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 06:25:11 AM »
I realize you're just in the "brainstorming" mode right now so I don't want to shoot down any ideas prematurely, but...

at some point you need to look at the impact that the overhead has on some of these ideas.

IMO,running a kitchen or restaurant is high cost, high risk.

You may want to just get an industrial-type building (lower rent and larger space) and just focus on brewing, putting it into kegs, and distributing it to regional bars as well as having your own "taproom" right there at the brewery.  Someone else can partner with you to supply the food to the patrons (but they take the risk and the time, not you) for the first few years.  You can always expand and add your own restaurant later.

I also agree with the 7 bbl to 15 bbl start size.  You may still want to have the pilot brewery 15-30 gallons for test batches, then scale up to the 7 bbl-15 bbl for production.

Offline phillamb168

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 07:07:19 AM »
I realize you're just in the "brainstorming" mode right now so I don't want to shoot down any ideas prematurely, but...

at some point you need to look at the impact that the overhead has on some of these ideas.

IMO,running a kitchen or restaurant is high cost, high risk.

You may want to just get an industrial-type building (lower rent and larger space) and just focus on brewing, putting it into kegs, and distributing it to regional bars as well as having your own "taproom" right there at the brewery.  Someone else can partner with you to supply the food to the patrons (but they take the risk and the time, not you) for the first few years.  You can always expand and add your own restaurant later.

I also agree with the 7 bbl to 15 bbl start size.  You may still want to have the pilot brewery 15-30 gallons for test batches, then scale up to the 7 bbl-15 bbl for production.

How would you suggest I handle distribution? Bottles are certainly easier and while requiring a lot more effort, require much less $$$ for equipment, but kegs are easier to fill, clean and ship.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 08:06:21 AM »
What's the best way to do labeling? Nothing fancy, just something nice.

We just buy stickers (3x5 in) from an online print shop. It's time-consuming to apply them, but for low production volumes it's cheaper than a labeling machine. Of course, you may need to get someone to do the graphics, but that's a one-time expense.
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Offline richardt

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2011, 10:08:32 AM »
How would you suggest I handle distribution? Bottles are certainly easier and while requiring a lot more effort, require much less $$$ for equipment, but kegs are easier to fill, clean and ship.

Honestly, I don't know--since we're talking about France. 
In the USA, it depends on the distributorship laws of the state in which you're doing business.
You may find it more or less restrictive there in France.

I would also get the facts about bottling.  Without the data in front of me, I don't think it is cheaper as there's more supplies (bottles, crowns, labels, bottle carriers, etc.) and handling issues with bottles than kegs.

Plastic kegs may be both cheaper and easier for you than stainless steel kegs.  Look into these.
http://www.globalpolymersolutions.co.uk/plastic-kegs/greenkeg.html
http://www.plastickegsamerica.com/content/section_kegs/index.html
http://www.zimbio.com/Beer/articles/x1DfZJkJ288/Are+you+ready+for+plastic+kegs

Offline euge

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2011, 11:31:40 AM »
Phil you already have a lucrative profession that allows you to indulge in your pursuits. Is this to be a money making operation on the side?

I don't have much to add except $115k is pretty cheap for a property of that nature, at least in the States. I could see it as having potential for a retirement business, where one could be on premises most of the time brewing or at least keeping a beady eye on affairs.

Then for food I'd do just a couple of simple dishes so badass the place be known for it besides the beer. Like buffalo wings or meat-pies.

And how about brewing off premises? The apparent laxity of the regulations is very attractive to an American businessman...
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2011, 03:42:20 PM »
MsStart by looking at the floors and drains for any property.  The floors should slope to the drains.  The drains should drain!

I know of several breweries that went into production, and realized there floors and drains were inadequate.  Hard to fix once you are in production.

The floors also need to be thick enough to support larger systems as you grow the capacity.
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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2011, 03:54:02 PM »
The floors should slope to the drains.  The drains should drain!

Oh don't worry about it.  That's what squeegees are for.  ;)

Offline maxieboy

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2011, 06:00:35 PM »
The floors should slope to the drains.  The drains should drain!

Oh don't worry about it.  That's what squeegees are for.  ;)

Yeah. Michigan's now largest microbrewery has floors like that. A former automotive parts factory with a polished concrete floor. Bummer.
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Offline phillamb168

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 02:30:01 AM »
Phil you already have a lucrative profession that allows you to indulge in your pursuits. Is this to be a money making operation on the side?

I don't have much to add except $115k is pretty cheap for a property of that nature, at least in the States. I could see it as having potential for a retirement business, where one could be on premises most of the time brewing or at least keeping a beady eye on affairs.

Then for food I'd do just a couple of simple dishes so badass the place be known for it besides the beer. Like buffalo wings or meat-pies.

And how about brewing off premises? The apparent laxity of the regulations is very attractive to an American businessman...

Euge, yeah, basically. One thing I'd like to do is continue consulting, but do it from the brewery/restaurant/whatever I end up doing. If I hire an employee or two, we can use the area as an office and basically brew and code during the same day. There's nothing like that in the US or Europe as far as I know, and I think it'd be pretty durn neat. The open source community has a saying, "free as in beer, free as in speech" and if we make our own beer... Well you see where it's going.

Also I think I have a problem where I do one thing for a bit, and then get tired of it and want to experience something new. I've been doing coding for nearly 7 years now, so maybe it's just the 'seven year itch' of jobs.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Potential brewpub location
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 08:12:50 AM »
[Also I think I have a problem where I do one thing for a bit, and then get tired of it and want to experience something new. I've been doing coding for nearly 7 years now, so maybe it's just the 'seven year itch' of jobs.

This is a very real thing. The average adult in the developed world changes careers every 7 years. I've been coding/designing databases for 12 years now and keep wanting to do something else but it's hard to walk away from the paycheck. I say if you can afford it and it's what you want to do, do it! Starting with just the brewing and useing others to distribute sounds like a great idea, and a tap room could be really good to, I imagine, without the expense of government licensure the profit margin on selling your own beer by the pint would be pretty large.
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