Author Topic: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!  (Read 3521 times)

Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2011, 08:05:13 PM »
I think every one is way over thinking this, and it's not a ph or water quality problem. If you think you have a lot of husks getting into your boil, then I'd work on that.

Hit the obvious things first and if that doesn't fix it, then look deeper.

See, that was my original thought too. I first changed my mill, as I thought my corona might have been shredding the husks too much. I then changed my bag to a very fine voile material. Well, no change. Again, I got this same off-flavor when I was batch sparging too. Back then I used an igloo cooler with a stainless hose braid. I would also vorlauf before collecting the wort. On my next batch, I do plan on using my old bag inside my new voile bag to act as a double filter. This should hopefully eliminate any particles getting into the boil.

ccarlson

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2011, 08:20:46 PM »
I have heard that Corona mills can shred the husks, but you've eliminated that with the roller mill. Also, you say you got that with batch sparging, so problems as a result of BIAB are probably not an issue either.

I feel your pain, but I've fought other off flavors ( not grainy) and they went away for reasons I'll never know.Good luck and you will figure this out or it may just go away.

Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2011, 08:26:20 PM »
I have heard that Corona mills can shred the husks, but you've eliminated that with the roller mill. Also, you say you got that with batch sparging, so problems as a result of BIAB are probably not an issue either.

I feel your pain, but I've fought other off flavors ( not grainy) and they went away for reasons I'll never know.Good luck and you will figure this out or it may just go away.

Thanks man. Yeah, its really frustrating. Nothing like spending all of the time and effort into making the best beer possible, and having it turn out with the same off-flavor time and time again. I'm not going to give up....I'm going to nail this eventually.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2011, 10:12:50 PM »
Still, BIAB is becoming such a popular method, you'd think that more people would have this problem if this were the case.
You're only the second person I know of outside of Australia, who does BIAB.  Maybe more people aren't having the problem because your situation isn't that common to begin with,
Tom Schmidlin

Offline malzig

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2011, 04:53:22 AM »
I make quite a few No-Sparge beers.  I've never had this problem with any of them, but I've only ever tried mashing with the full volume for the full time with amber beers.  More commonly, and for yellow beers, I usually add the second half of the water for the last 20-40 minutes, to raise the temperature for a step.  I have similar water to Hoss, so I'm not very concerned about his pH, especially with all that Crystal Malt in his Blonde, but it wouldn't hurt to get a pack of ColorpHast strips.

My first thought is the grain source.  The only two beers I ever had a strong graininess were two beers I made with come generic american Munich Malt I got from a bin at my LHBS.  I'd recommend trying a beer with a good, clean German Pilsner Malt, and little else. Maybe some German Carafoam, since you seem to like a little Crystal Malt character.

Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2011, 05:32:55 AM »
Still, BIAB is becoming such a popular method, you'd think that more people would have this problem if this were the case.
You're only the second person I know of outside of Australia, who does BIAB.  Maybe more people aren't having the problem because your situation isn't that common to begin with,

I know of many other homebrewers who are using BIAB. Not just as a way to get into AG brewing at a small cost but also for simplicity and just to save time during the brew day. It's is, in fact, increasing in popularity. Brew Strong, Basic Brewing Radio, as well as the Beersmith podcasts have all done a show dedicated to the topic recently.

But with that being said, I previously was doing a traditional batch sparge method using 1.25qt/lb. which is a common method and was still experiencing the same off-flavor then.

Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2011, 05:47:49 AM »
I make quite a few No-Sparge beers.  I've never had this problem with any of them, but I've only ever tried mashing with the full volume for the full time with amber beers.  More commonly, and for yellow beers, I usually add the second half of the water for the last 20-40 minutes, to raise the temperature for a step.  I have similar water to Hoss, so I'm not very concerned about his pH, especially with all that Crystal Malt in his Blonde, but it wouldn't hurt to get a pack of ColorpHast strips.

My first thought is the grain source.  The only two beers I ever had a strong graininess were two beers I made with come generic american Munich Malt I got from a bin at my LHBS.  I'd recommend trying a beer with a good, clean German Pilsner Malt, and little else. Maybe some German Carafoam, since you seem to like a little Crystal Malt character.

In the new BYO this month, there's an article by Gordon Strong on session beers. There he as a recipe for an Irish Red, where he recommends using a no sparge technique. Of course, he's also starting with RO water and a tsp of CaCl2.

On my next batch, I think I will do another Pale Ale. I'll open one of the brand new sacks of grain that I just bought and double bag the mash. If the flavor sticks through, I'll probably do another batch using RO water and water additions to see if that knocks it out. If i'm still getting the flavor then, I'll go back and do a traditional thin mash and batch sparge.

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2011, 07:22:48 AM »
I have heard that Corona mills can shred the husks, but you've eliminated that with the roller mill.

I've made a lot of good beeer using a Corona mill.

I'm currently using no-sparge almost exclusively, its been working pretty well for me.

Your recipe looks OK.  I just wonder if you've become accustomed to the slight sweetness of an extract beer, and are missing that in your AG stuff.  You can always add a little more crystal and/or use mash schedules to leave a little more residual sweetness.
Lennie
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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2011, 07:42:21 AM »
Still, BIAB is becoming such a popular method, you'd think that more people would have this problem if this were the case.
You're only the second person I know of outside of Australia, who does BIAB.  Maybe more people aren't having the problem because your situation isn't that common to begin with,

Or maybe they are but just don't recognize it.
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Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2011, 07:49:22 AM »
Say, could a lot of unconverted starches in the boil possibly cause this flavor? On my last batch, my efficiency was pretty poor...around 65%. I wonder if this could be contributing to it? I haven't done an iodine conversion test in a while, so I think I'll go ahead and do one on the next batch. I also normally do a 60 minute mash....maybe going to 75 min or even 90 could help?

Offline denny

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2011, 10:06:56 AM »
Say, could a lot of unconverted starches in the boil possibly cause this flavor? On my last batch, my efficiency was pretty poor...around 65%. I wonder if this could be contributing to it? I haven't done an iodine conversion test in a while, so I think I'll go ahead and do one on the next batch. I also normally do a 60 minute mash....maybe going to 75 min or even 90 could help?

Personally, I feel like it's so easy to get false readings from the iodine test that it's useless.  If your temp was correct and you held it for 60 min., there's almost no chance you didn't get conversion. It's more likely you have poor extraction efficiency rather than poor conversion efficiency.
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Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2011, 11:30:02 AM »
Thanks Denny and everyone else for your help. I'm going to try and brew a batch tomorrow, making the adjustments I listed above. I will report back if I have any luck.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2011, 01:16:43 PM »
Still, BIAB is becoming such a popular method, you'd think that more people would have this problem if this were the case.
You're only the second person I know of outside of Australia, who does BIAB.  Maybe more people aren't having the problem because your situation isn't that common to begin with,

I know of many other homebrewers who are using BIAB. Not just as a way to get into AG brewing at a small cost but also for simplicity and just to save time during the brew day. It's is, in fact, increasing in popularity. Brew Strong, Basic Brewing Radio, as well as the Beersmith podcasts have all done a show dedicated to the topic recently.
I know more people are doing it, I'm just not sure I would classify it as "such a popular method".   That's all I was saying. :)

Let us know how the next batch turns out either way, I'm interested.
Tom Schmidlin

ccarlson

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2011, 02:13:57 PM »
I don't get the advantage of BIAB, but I'm hearing a lot of people say they're doing it. Truth is, I haven't really researched it enough to know if it would help me or not. I'm still betting the off flavor has nothing to do with ph. The double bag may solve the problem.

Offline hossthegreat

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Re: Need your help eliminating this off-flavor!
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2011, 04:21:27 PM »
I don't get the advantage of BIAB, but I'm hearing a lot of people say they're doing it. Truth is, I haven't really researched it enough to know if it would help me or not. I'm still betting the off flavor has nothing to do with ph. The double bag may solve the problem.

For many its an inexpensive way to get into AG brewing. All that you need is a big enough pot and a bag to hold all of the grain. For me it shaves some time off of my brew day by not sparging or needing to clean multiple vessels. When I'm done with the mash, I pull out the bag, dump out the spent grains, and give it a quick rinse. I actually converted an old keg into an electric BIAB rig and I love how easy it is to control my temps. For me, it just makes the whole process so much easier. Here's some pics of my setup.