Author Topic: Just bought a CO2 tank...  (Read 3066 times)

Offline lupulin5446

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2011, 04:03:48 PM »
Just remember not to put the tank or regulator in a refrigerator with the beer. 

Offline richardt

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2011, 04:42:49 PM »
Just remember not to put the tank or regulator in a refrigerator with the beer. 

Why do you say that?

Offline lupulin5446

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2011, 07:57:57 PM »
The adjustment apparatus on the pressure regulator usually contains a metal plate and spring that presses against a polymer seal.  Colder temperatures will change the properties of the spring as well as cause an inaccurate reading on the gauge.   

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2011, 08:23:57 PM »
I've noticed problems with regulators in the fridge, thanks for the explanation.  Can you put any numbers to how far off it is and in which direction?  Usually it just creeps up on me, and won't stay where I set it.  Do you know the recommended operation temp for most gauges?  My garage swings from 38-90+ over the course of the year.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline narvin

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2011, 08:32:10 PM »
This company lists the operating range as -40-+200 F for their regulators. 

http://www.manitowocfsusa.com/docs/uploaded/mbs/us/mbs/mbs_catalog/co2regulators.pdf

Of course, if your garage has temperature swings from 38 - 90, you'd be better off leaving it in the fridge because it will at least be constant.  If the temperature of the tank changes, so will the pressure and your regulator setting will also change.

I keep mine in the fridge and see no temperature drifts, nor do I have a problem balancing my system according to the standard chart.  YMMV, but it seems like something that's not worth worrying about.  If it's easier to put your tank in the fridge because of your setup, do it.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 08:35:17 PM by narvin »
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2011, 08:36:14 PM »
That's fine, but clearly not right in my experience.  I may have a different brand, but if I put them in the serving fridge then things get weird.  The serving fridge is warmer than -40F. :)
Tom Schmidlin

Offline lupulin5446

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2011, 03:57:25 PM »
When I studied draft systems at Seibel, the word was, 'do not put the regulator or tank inside a refrigerator'.  In addition to effecting the components of the regulator, the gas will become more dense.  I am certain that the regulator will function at a wide temperature range, but was it specifically designed for beer?  How is the accuracy affected?  1-2 psi make a big differance when carbonating beer.

Offline bluesman

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2011, 07:04:06 PM »
I keep mine in the fridge and see no temperature drifts, nor do I have a problem balancing my system according to the standard chart.  YMMV, but it seems like something that's not worth worrying about.  If it's easier to put your tank in the fridge because of your setup, do it.

+1

I keep all of my CO2 tanks cold with the beer with no ill effects. A kegerator, a lagering keezer and a beer refrigerator all have their own CO2 tanks and no ill effects from any of them. I've even checked my regulator against a pressure gage installed to the keg and they are both within a degree of each other when set at 12psi.

I think the problem arises when you change your regulator setting, in that it takes some amount of time for the regulator pressure setting to adjust to the new setting and come into equilibrium with the actual beer pressure in the keg.
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Offline tygo

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2011, 07:12:10 PM »
I think the problem arises when you change your regulator setting, in that it takes some amount of time for the regulator pressure setting to adjust to the new setting and come into equilibrium with the actual beer pressure in the keg.

I think it just takes time for the gauge to read properly when it's cold. That may be what you mean.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2011, 07:15:50 PM »
I think the problem arises when you change your regulator setting, in that it takes some amount of time for the regulator pressure setting to adjust to the new setting and come into equilibrium with the actual beer pressure in the keg.

I think it just takes time for the gauge to read properly when it's cold. That may be what you mean.

Yes...it's late.  ::)
Ron Price

Offline narvin

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2011, 07:19:14 PM »
When I studied draft systems at Seibel, the word was, 'do not put the regulator or tank inside a refrigerator'.  In addition to effecting the components of the regulator, the gas will become more dense.  I am certain that the regulator will function at a wide temperature range, but was it specifically designed for beer?  How is the accuracy affected?  1-2 psi make a big differance when carbonating beer.

I really can't comment on how the regulator's metal spring responds to temperature changes and affects accuracy other than what I've experienced.

However, the physics of CO2 dictates that it's liquid in the tank regardless, with gas "boiling" off as it is released.  The gas pressure coming out will be lower at lower temperatures, but I don't see why this would affect the output of the regulator.
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Offline Tim McManus

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2011, 07:40:30 PM »
PV/T=K

I've had a fridge with a 5# and 15# CO2 tank inside of it.  I've heard varying stories that the CO2 will deplete faster and other such wives tales.  I recently moved the CO2 tank outside of the fridge with a side modification (heck, I figured I could fit another keg in its place), and the only difference is the pressure reading for the tank's internal pressure.  PV/T=K explains it all.

There should be no difference--mechanical or otherwise--that will adversely affect the tank, regulator, or carbonation of the beer.  You may need to adjust the regulator due to the drop in temperature, but that's about it, and it should be expected.

Once the system is set up properly, the magic will happen.
Tim McManus
Haskell, NJ

Offline tygo

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2011, 08:01:28 PM »
I've got my tank in the freezer out of necessity at this point and other than the sluggishness of the gauge, as mentioned above, I haven't had any problems at all with it.  And as far as the sluggishness goes it just requires a little patience which shouldn't be too hard to come by in this hobby  ;)
Clint
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Offline oscarvan

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2011, 11:06:07 PM »
I've noticed problems with regulators in the fridge, thanks for the explanation.  Can you put any numbers to how far off it is and in which direction?  Usually it just creeps up on me, and won't stay where I set it.  Do you know the recommended operation temp for most gauges?  My garage swings from 38-90+ over the course of the year.

Ah, my dear Sir, YOU need one of those little college fridges with a temp controller to keep your CO2 supply at a constant 70º..... ;D

Actually, more seriously now that I think about it....get a bigger fridge with a temp controller and a ceramic heat lamp, a DUAL stage controller and use it as a fermentation chamber AND keep your CO2 supply in there.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 11:07:43 PM by oscarvan »
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Offline Will's Swill

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Re: Just bought a CO2 tank...
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2011, 04:49:26 PM »
Count me as one who has operated my tanks both inside and outside of the keg cooler with no noticable effects on the regulator either way.
Is that a counter-pressure bottle filler in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?