Author Topic: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.  (Read 4101 times)

Offline kola

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Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« on: July 10, 2011, 07:56:25 PM »
Hey

I just attempted my first all-grain brew. I used 12lbs of row-2 pale malt, 1lb of Black Patent, 1lb of Roasted Barley, and 1/2 lbs of chocolate malt.  Everything went pretty well until fermentation. Right now it has been 17 hours since I have pitched the yeast (Wyeast 1084: Irish Ale). I have my fermenter attached to a blowout hose (I prefer it over an airlock) and I can hear the Co2 bubbles, roughly 2-3 bubbles a second. I am just curious as to why there is no krausen formation. Does anyone have an answers?

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 08:39:46 PM »
I usually get a decent krausen with 1084.  I don't suppose you cleaned your carboy with soap or something that would knock down the foam?  It's not the end of the world even if it never forms.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline kola

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 08:50:47 PM »
Just Iodophor and a couple rinses.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 11:03:30 PM »
Just Iodophor and a couple rinses.

not that is would cause what you are describing but yo know you don't have to rinse iodophor right? in fact it sort of defeats the purpose as what ever you use to rinse could be reintroducing contaminants to your vessel.

Only 17 hours I wouldn't worry yet by the way. did you make a starter? could still be getting going. 
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 04:30:10 AM »
If you don't see any activity within the next 24 hours, then take a gravity reading and report back with the result.

I wouldn't worry you should be fine.
Ron Price

Offline Will's Swill

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2011, 04:38:59 PM »
Yep, just bottled a dark mild that never formed a krausen.  Thought for sure it didn't ferment as I never saw any bubbles in the airlock either, but the gravity told me otherwise.
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Offline kola

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 10:06:54 AM »
Ya I have been pretty cheap. I haven't bothered witha hydrometer. I usually just judge it off of the amount of Co2 being released. Which as worked for me so far. I am not to worried about the beer, most likely it will turn out. I am just curious to know what caused the krausen not to form.

As far as a starter. It is one of those liquid packets that you smack. I allowed the wyeast pouch to expand for about and hour and a 1/2 before pitching it.

Online denny

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 10:32:30 AM »
Ya I have been pretty cheap. I haven't bothered witha hydrometer. I usually just judge it off of the amount of Co2 being released. Which as worked for me so far. I am not to worried about the beer, most likely it will turn out. I am just curious to know what caused the krausen not to form.

As far as a starter. It is one of those liquid packets that you smack. I allowed the wyeast pouch to expand for about and hour and a 1/2 before pitching it.

If you truly want to make better beer, get a hydrometer.  They're inexpensive and can provide a lot of valuable info.

Smacking a Wyeast pack is not the same as making a starter.  A starter will increase the amount of yeast you have so that you will have a better fermentation and make better beer.  See mrmalty.com for more info.
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Offline bigchicken

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 10:39:56 AM »
I agree with Denny. To me a hydrometer is one of the most important brewing tools I have. It can be the difference between blowing up bottles or having fully fermented beer in bottles.
As far as krausen, I generally pay no attention to it.
TJ Cook
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 11:00:56 AM »
+1 to the hydrometer. It's a very valuable tool.

As far as yeast pitching rates. Here's some info that has become a general rule in my brewing. Pitch plenty of healthy yeast into a well aerated wort prior to fermentation.

Here's the math from mrmalty.com, JZ's website.

Calculate the number of  yeast cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons
A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager

One Wyeast smack pack or White Labs vial is equivalent to 100 Billion cells.




« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 05:57:07 PM by bluesman »
Ron Price

Offline hokerer

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 11:45:37 AM »
One fresh Wyeast smack pack or White Labs vial is equivalent to 1 Billion cells.
Joe

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 01:27:31 PM »
+1 to the hydrometer. It's a very valuable tool.

As far as yeast pitching rates. Here's some info that has become a general rule in my brewing. Pitch plenty of healthy yeast into a well aerated wort prior to fermentation.

Here's the math from mrmalty.com, JZ's website.

Calculate the number of  yeast cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons
A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager

One Wyeast smack pack or White Labs vial is equivalent to 1 Billion cells.




I think your math is wrong somewhere. If you plug a 1.048 wort into Mr Malty and ask how many vials/smackpacks to pitch it does not say 180, more like 1.8. if a vial is 1 billion and you are saying that 5 gallons of 1.048 wort needs 180,000,000,000 you would need to pitch 180 Frsh vials into it to get your desired level as stated above. Perhaps litres instead of millilitres?
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 01:49:05 PM »
One Wyeast smack pack or White Labs vial is equivalent to 1 Billion cells.

I think your math is wrong somewhere. If you plug a 1.048 wort into Mr Malty and ask how many vials/smackpacks to pitch it does not say 180, more like 1.8. if a vial is 1 billion and you are saying that 5 gallons of 1.048 wort needs 180,000,000,000 you would need to pitch 180 Frsh vials into it to get your desired level as stated above. Perhaps litres instead of millilitres?
Yes, bad math, wrong spot though.  100 Billion cells per smack pack.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 02:00:35 PM »
ah okay. didn't have any reference materials in front of me.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Fermentation is occurring w/o Krausen formation.
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 04:56:51 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if the wort is lacking enough body builders to raise a head.  Hopefully I'm wrong, but if the resulting beer has poor head production and retention, then an addition of a minor percentage of wheat malt, flaked wheat, or flaked barley is recommended for the next brew.  On the order of 1/4 lb in a 5 gal batch can do miracles.
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