Author Topic: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2  (Read 4574 times)

Offline denny

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2011, 01:42:33 PM »
No spot Denny, but I know Brad will consider what his users want, within reason.

I know that he will, Fred.  I think that at this point the thing I'm having the most trouble with is that Beersmith seems to rigid about making you do stuff its way.  Maybe that means I haven't looked at Beersmith enough, which I freely admit.  But ya know, I don't wanna choose a mash profile from a list.  I don't want to have to deal with equipment profiles.  I want it to be more free form.  It's entirely possible that it can work like that and I haven't figured it out yet, which is why I keep going back to Beersmith and working with it.  I also have to figure out how to get it to give me the same results as Promash in terms of gravity, IBUs, volumes and stuff like that so I can can work on recipes that I've used before and have them give me the same results.  I'm not in any way dissing Beersmith.  I just need more time and experience with it.  Until I can get that, I'll stay with Promash or use both at once so I can see what the differences are and how to deal with them.
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Offline denny

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2011, 01:44:18 PM »
Am I the only one that still uses Promash these days?

Nope...I keep trying to learn Beersmith, but between confusion and stuff I'm used to in Promash that isn't in Beersmith, I keep going back to Promash.  I haven't given up on Beersmith, though.
So this brings up the question, what is the motivation to move to Beersmith? If Promash has worked for you (and me) for so many years, why change? Is it simply because it's still evolving and getting updates, whereas we all know Promash is not?

For me, there are a couple motivations.  One is just to see what I might be missing out on by not using Beersmith.  The other is that I made a commitment to Brad to learn Beersmith.  I'm interested in seeing how he implements batch sparging and to see if there might be anything I can contribute to improve it.  The database limitation in Promash isn't a problem for me.  I really don't need to keep the specs from hops I bought in 2005 any more.  If I should ever run up against the limit (and I can't imagine I ever will) there's plenty of stuff there I can delete.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 01:46:54 PM by denny »
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Offline jeffy

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 02:27:49 PM »
No spot Denny, but I know Brad will consider what his users want, within reason.

I know that he will, Fred.  I think that at this point the thing I'm having the most trouble with is that Beersmith seems to rigid about making you do stuff its way.  Maybe that means I haven't looked at Beersmith enough, which I freely admit.  But ya know, I don't wanna choose a mash profile from a list.  I don't want to have to deal with equipment profiles.  I want it to be more free form.  It's entirely possible that it can work like that and I haven't figured it out yet, which is why I keep going back to Beersmith and working with it.  I also have to figure out how to get it to give me the same results as Promash in terms of gravity, IBUs, volumes and stuff like that so I can can work on recipes that I've used before and have them give me the same results.  I'm not in any way dissing Beersmith.  I just need more time and experience with it.  Until I can get that, I'll stay with Promash or use both at once so I can see what the differences are and how to deal with them.

Same for me.  I don't know the purpose of a set mash schedule or why I need to input my system's equipment.  I haven't spent enough time on it yet to see why and how it all works.  I wanted to record the mash schedule on my last brew and gave up after several minutes, adding it to the "notes" section.
I'll figure it out eventually, but like Denny, I liked the simplicity of Promash just fine.
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Offline denny

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2011, 03:20:38 PM »
I just thought of one thing I definitely prefer about Promash...it doesn't make FG predictions!  There is no way a piece of software can accurately do that and I don't know how many people have been confused by Beersmith telling them where their beer "should" finish.  IMO, Beersmith should just get rid of that "feature".

« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 03:25:44 PM by denny »
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Offline bonjour

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2011, 05:43:02 PM »
No spot Denny, but I know Brad will consider what his users want, within reason.
 But ya know, I don't wanna choose a mash profile from a list.  I don't want to have to deal with equipment profiles.  I want it to be more free form.

I also have to figure out how to get it to give me the same results as Promash in terms of gravity, IBUs, volumes and stuff like that so I can can work on recipes that I've used before and have them give me the same results.
While there are several set mash profiles, as ther are in ProMash, you can define your own, as you can in ProMash.

Email me the same recipe in both ProMash .rec and BeerSmith .bsmx
Be sure and tell me what formula you are using in ProMash. and I'll help you "dial it in".
Fred Bonjour
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline bonjour

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2011, 05:55:04 PM »
I just thought of one thing I definitely prefer about Promash...it doesn't make FG predictions!  There is no way a piece of software can accurately do that and I don't know how many people have been confused by Beersmith telling them where their beer "should" finish.  IMO, Beersmith should just get rid of that "feature".
Now I use that feature and it comes real close for me.  But I've analyzed my results with both different temps and my standard yeasts and I know what I should get and I've tweaked BS to give me those results.  I'm sure you know on your system what to expect your FG to be, especially with your standard brews.  I get better results this way than using the standard 75% attenuation that most recipes assume.

Certainly you can't get bent out of shape if your FG is off a bit.
Fred Bonjour
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline rightasrain

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2011, 08:30:44 PM »
I think all my recipes are the default profile. I just keep it there and ignore the target color, IBU, and FG bars.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 06:59:39 AM »
I just thought of one thing I definitely prefer about Promash...it doesn't make FG predictions!  There is no way a piece of software can accurately do that and I don't know how many people have been confused by Beersmith telling them where their beer "should" finish.  IMO, Beersmith should just get rid of that "feature".



Denny, I agree that there are far too many variables involved in predicting where a beer's FG will end up.  But I think it would be nice to have an idea where the FG might fall based on the SG and typical attenuation for that yeast.  I know its a SWAG, but a lot of people don't have the interest or skill to make that calculation.  I'm a Promash user and that might be a nice guess to add into the output information. 
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Offline blatz

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2011, 07:14:02 AM »
 But ya know, I don't wanna choose a mash profile from a list.  I don't want to have to deal with equipment profiles.  I want it to be more free form.  It's entirely possible that it can work like that and I haven't figured it out yet, which is why I keep going back to Beersmith and working with it.  

Come on now - choose a basic one from a list and then alter it (via the little check box next to the list drop-down) to your heart's content - even rename it Denny's Nonconformist Mash profile  ;) you can add steps or delete them, etc. And you can save your own mash profile to reuse later.

Its not rigid - its organized and actually quite versatile- you just have to know how to work within its parameters, which involves playing around with it to become accustomed.

What I'm hearing is simply people being used to a particular program - which is okay - nothing wrong with using what's comfortable.

Edit: actually, in looking at it - you don't even have to choose from the list - just hit "add mash step"
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 07:17:00 AM by blatz »
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Offline denny

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2011, 08:14:24 AM »
Thanks for the ideas.  Like I said, I have no doubt that a lot of my discomfort with Beersmith is just due to unfamiliarity.  That's why I intend to keep working with it.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: ProMash -> BeerSmith 2
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2011, 08:11:27 PM »
I brewed up a Quad today and worked with Beersmith2 quite a bit, and have to say I am really impressed with the upgrades to the 2nd edition. It is alot more user friendly, not that it wasn't before but it has been much improved in this area. There are alot more shortcuts as well.

The biggest thing I learned the hard way today  ::) was to click "OK" after making recipe changes. I typed in a bunch of notes early on in the brew day and then closed the program by accident...well it didn't save my notes.

I like the arrangement of multiple windows running at the same time. I can move from one operation to the next with great ease as opposed to the older version. I am warming up nicely to Beersmith2.  ;)
Ron Price