[jaybeerman]

For me this normally means means IPA, brown porter, wit, some bitters, saison, mild ale or...but this year I actually feel like making a very small citrus/spice dryish ale.  I'm shooting for a well rounded character, let me know what you think of the following basic recipe.

5.5 gal, 1.047ish, 18ibu

Mash @ 151 for 50 min, 2 qt/lb
5.25 lb Pils
4 lb Mild or Special Aromatic or mix
12 oz CaraWheat 56L

1 oz Kent Golding @ FWH
2-3 oz Kent Golding @ 2 minutes

Spices @ 5 minutes
0.75 gm Cumin
0.75 gm Dried Ginger
?? Mixed Peppercorns (crushed)
10 gm Sweet Orange Peel
5 gm Lemon Peel

European Ale at the lower end of the range

Any suggestions?

[tomsawyer]

Except for the cumin and ginger it looks like a nice wit.  I have made a couple of ginger ales, never used cumin.  I'm afraid it would taste like tacos.  I'd halve the hops, no need to have discernable hop bitterness when you have all those spices.

[jaybeerman]

Except for the cumin and ginger it looks like a nice wit.  I have made a couple of ginger ales, never used cumin.  I'm afraid it would taste like tacos.  I'd halve the hops, no need to have discernable hop bitterness when you have all those spices.

Wit but no raw wheat? You can't live your whole life being afraid  cumin beer could go nicely with tacos too.  With that size of addition I'm hoping to get just a touch of earthiness, bitterness and its flowery aroma.  Maybe I'll move it to a dry hop addition or take it down to 0.5 gm and increase the ginger to 1 gram.  Do you get that much bitterness from your ginger beers? I haven't noticed a bitter character but I normally use fresh skinned ginger for my brews.  As far as bitterness goes you might be right, I'm just looking for a refreshing edge so perhaps I'll lessen the amount of fwh.  cheers, j

No other thoughts?

[gmac]

It looks very interesting to me.  Mrs. GMAC hates cumin (although she's getting it in her taco's whether she likes it or not) so when I told her your idea she said "Eww..."  But, she's usually wrong so who cares (thank goodness she doesn't have an AHA account).

I think it would be good but what do I know.  Go for it.  I do think scaling back the cumin to the "hey, what's that...can't quite place it but it's nice" range would be good.  Do you think that will clash with the lemon?  Just curious since I've never thought of those two tastes together.

[jaybeerman]

It looks very interesting to me.  Mrs. GMAC hates cumin (although she's getting it in her taco's whether she likes it or not) so when I told her your idea she said "Eww..."  But, she's usually wrong so who cares (thank goodness she doesn't have an AHA account).

I think it would be good but what do I know.  Go for it.  I do think scaling back the cumin to the "hey, what's that...can't quite place it but it's nice" range would be good.  Do you think that will clash with the lemon?  Just curious since I've never thought of those two tastes together.

It does seem like you either love or hate cumin, no middle ground. In food i love the flavor of cumin with citrus, but I've never had it in a beer.  Just as a quick experiment, I just made this

mug of 160f water
1/8 tsp of cumin powder (don't have fresh seeds on hand)
1/4 tsp of ginger powder (don't have fresh on hand)
and a TBS of Orange Peel

I let it steep for a while and I thought it had potential.  Good earthy orangey flavor with a heat bite.  Who knows, I'll keep toying with the idea.  cheers, j

[morticaixavier]

I think it might be amazing. I love cumin so put me in the 'love it' column but still I think the floral aspect might be really nice in a simple low hop bitter type ale. + 1 on cutting down the hops though. I think often times people underestimate the value of a low hop spiced beer. especially low gravity ones.

**EDIT** although I might go with a pale malt instead of pils as I am not sure how that sweetness would play. but that's just me. I think of pils malt as more of a german/austrian thing and they have been all about the hops for so long where as the more scottish/irish 'screw the english and all there effing hops' attitude works well with spices and herbs. course then there is the belgians.

[jaybeerman]

I think it might be amazing. I love cumin so put me in the 'love it' column but still I think the floral aspect might be really nice in a simple low hop bitter type ale. + 1 on cutting down the hops though. I think often times people underestimate the value of a low hop spiced beer. especially low gravity ones.

**EDIT** although I might go with a pale malt instead of pils as I am not sure how that sweetness would play. but that's just me. I think of pils malt as more of a german/austrian thing and they have been all about the hops for so long where as the more scottish/irish 'screw the english and all there effing hops' attitude works well with spices and herbs. course then there is the belgians.

I'm scared to go dry with the cumin, since I have to start somewhere I'm going to start sweetish and see what I think. I agree with both of you on hop flavor and bitterness, but I have an inkling that the hop aroma will go nicely in this ale (I did lower the bitterness a bit).  I'm not sure what region this beer would belong to, perhaps it's a beer without a home.  Here's my latest thoughts.  cheers, j

5.5 gal, 1.046ish, 12.5ibu

Mash @ 151 for 50 min, 2 qt/lb
6 lb Pils
3.25 lb Mild or Special Aromatic or mix
12 oz CaraWheat 56L

0.35 oz Perle @ FWH
1.8 oz Perle @ 2 minutes

Spices @ 5 minutes
0.75 gm Cumin
0.75 gm Dried Ginger or fresh
10 gm Sweet Orange Peel
5 gm Lemon Peel

European Ale at the lower end of the range

[1vertical]

Jay, My summer beers tend to be Saisons because of the higher ambient temps
and that lends itself well to the parameters of those yeast strains for the most part.

Do post back and tell me how that cumin in a beer fares on the taste budz.....
I would be more inclined to try cardamom...

[euge]

I love cumin or "comino" but fear a small amount will go a very long way in a beer. Interesting though. I'd leave out the pepper and just go with the ginger and citrus. The cumin I'd use as cracked toasted seeds and not as a powder.

[tomsawyer]

Wit but no raw wheat?

Oops for some reason I thought I saw wheat in the grist.  As for cumin I'll have to steep some and see what kind of flavor it imparts to a bottle of beer.

[jaybeerman]

Jay, My summer beers tend to be Saisons because of the higher ambient temps
and that lends itself well to the parameters of those yeast strains for the most part.

Do post back and tell me how that cumin in a beer fares on the taste budz.....
I would be more inclined to try cardamom...

Yeah, hard to beat a good saison (this recipe could easily be a saison).  I'll post back just a warning though caraway spaghetti is first on the list.  I have a winter beer with cardamom and cocoa, a spiced brown ale.  cheers, j

[1vertical]

  You took your own thread off topic...so I guess I can comment.

You will NOT be sorry that you tried caraway in/on your spaghetti....!

[jaybeerman]

I love cumin or "comino" but fear a small amount will go a very long way in a beer. Interesting though. I'd leave out the pepper and just go with the ginger and citrus. The cumin I'd use as cracked toasted seeds and not as a powder.

You're going down the same thought path I went down, it appears.  Pepper is out.  I've made several great ginger citrus beers so it's time to try the cumin.  I did a lot of thinking on the cumin; if this were food I'd agree completely on the cracked and the toasting of a portion of the seeds.  But I think on this one I'm going to start with uncracked and untoasted.  My reasoning is that the toasting changes the flavor to a nutty character and drives off the delicate oils although some of those oils are bitter.  I'm still debating where to use the cumin; in the boil or as a dry hop addition.  As far as cracking the seeds, I like both flavors (cracked and uncracked) but I'm hoping that the earthy subtle character of the whole seeds works better in the beer.  Who knows.  Cheers, j

[euge]

Isn't it traditional/conventional to spice during the last minutes of the boil? Like at 5 minutes.

[jaybeerman]

Isn't it traditional/conventional to spice during the last minutes of the boil? Like at 5 minutes.

Euge you're killing me.  Traditional cumin beer?  IMO it all depends on the spice and the desired character; my spiced winter ale is entirely dry spiced, no boil additions.