Author Topic: American 2-Row vs. British Pale  (Read 9143 times)

Offline denny

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2010, 09:54:23 AM »
  And why would that make a difference, and what would the difference be? 

brew the same beer twice - once with american 2-row, once with MO - certainly not scientific due to all the other variables, but you'll get a good comparison.  ;)

Oh, I'm well aware of the flavor differences.   What I'm trying to grok is _why_ there are flavor differences.  Is it simply the variety of barley?  If so, why isn't MO grown in the states?  And what does floor malting add to it that other types of malting don't?  There's so much that homebrewers accept just because "somebody said so"....I want to know why!
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 11:13:46 AM »
I think taste is developed in trip from continent to the states on high see. Rocking ship wips out any undesired flavor compounds from malts :)

By the way Weyermann just started floor malting "Hanka" bohemian barley. Different malting processes will give you different results. Can some say decoction vs non decoction?

Why some barley variety are grown in certain parts of world would depend on environmental conditions, soil, humidity...
Think about hops. German Hallertau vs US Hallertau?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 11:15:33 AM by Thirsty_Monk »
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Offline blatz

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 11:43:18 AM »
Oh, I'm well aware of the flavor differences.   What I'm trying to grok is _why_ there are flavor differences.  Is it simply the variety of barley?  If so, why isn't MO grown in the states?  And what does floor malting add to it that other types of malting don't?  There's so much that homebrewers accept just because "somebody said so"....I want to know why!

was only having a little fun with you - I knew that's what you meant  ;D.

however, to me its analagous to rotisserie chicken (modern malting methods) vs. pan roasted chicken (floor malting) - both can start with the same raw materials, use the same temperature and cook time, but they end up tasting different - perhaps not drastically, but somewhat.  Certainly, this isn't the best analogy, but it sorta works in my noggin.

as was said, growing conditions cause a lot of difference, even with the same species of barley.  Similar to: I know people who swear they can taste the difference in steak from Nebraska vs. Texas (I can't, but you get the idea).

The  process the malt goes through doesn't concern me, only what tastes best.  In my IPA I've tried 6 different base malts over the years, but I found the MO based ones were the best end results, that's all I need to know -
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Offline hankus

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 08:33:29 AM »
after doing a batch with MO and with Am pale have a number of folks taste  or else have someone blindfold you to eliminate any subjectivity.My professional brewer friends here feel there is NO difference between UK and US pale;they have no experience with MO...which brings me to a tangent...one of the traditional "great" brewing books is by Wheeler and Protz and IMHO all they do is to use essentially the same recipes changing only the brand of pale malt which doesn't help me since I buy by the sack and usually have limited choices

Offline alemental

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2010, 11:55:46 AM »
The reason Marris Otter is not grown more commonly is for monetary reasons. It is a low yield cultivar. Growers can get lotsa more bushels per acre with other varieties.

Offline bluesman

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2010, 12:41:28 PM »
The reason Marris Otter is not grown more commonly is for monetary reasons.

Not a surprise there. It's a market and just like any other market, it has to be competitive. It comes down to margins and dollars and cents.
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Offline karlh

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2010, 02:38:16 PM »
Denny,  It may relate to "provenance".  England is famous for those chalk cliffs at Dover, as well as that hard, gypsum-rich water IPA's are famous for.  It just may be that the local environment, geology, hydrology and other factors in their malt growning regions have a (biochemical) effect on the malt grown there.  This could help explain why my english beers brewed with MO taste so darn "English" in terms of malt profile.  Its all two row malt, but English seems to make a difference.... Australian wines made of Rhone style grapes (shiraz, voigner, cabernet, merlot, etc.) taste Australian, not French.  Why don't grocers sell endive from the US... its always Belgian.  Some products with specific provenance have desirable characteristics over similar products with different provenance.  From my last couple years of experimentation, I have settled on using english malts for my bitters and english style pale ales... I am less convinced the difference is discernable with porters and stouts.  I tend to buy both american and english pale malt if my budget can afford both,  I have had good results duplicating some english styles by replacing a portion of american pale with victory malt to get some of the bready/biscuity flavors, but its not exactly the same.
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Offline denny

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2010, 10:43:42 AM »
I've had pretty good luck replicating the flavor of MO (and even Golden Promise) with Great Western pale malt.  I understand what you;re saying about the "provenance/terroir" thing, too.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2010, 12:52:11 PM »
Does anyone find good results using MO in American APA/IPA's?

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Offline blatz

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2010, 12:55:11 PM »
Does anyone find good results using MO in American APA/IPA's?



that's what I use as my basemalt for everything, so yes, it produces great results.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline bluesman

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2010, 12:57:41 PM »
Does anyone find good results using MO in American APA/IPA's?



that's what I use as my basemalt for everything, so yes, it produces great results.

I knew you did. I definitely counted on your response, but are you the only one?
Ron Price

Offline dontblake

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2010, 01:13:50 PM »
Yes, MO in an american pale or IPA is fantastic!
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Offline dean

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2010, 12:12:32 PM »
I've had pretty good luck replicating the flavor of MO (and even Golden Promise) with Great Western pale malt.  I understand what you;re saying about the "provenance/terroir" thing, too.

I was wondering if anybody would mention GP since its supposed to be even better than MO.  Personally, I think American 2 row is better in American beer but I can't be sure yet... still messing with MO, GP, 2 row and Pils.  They all work, just depends on what you want out of your beer I guess.  Honestly I think one of the best APA's or IPA's I've brewed was Great Western 2-row I bought from B3 but I wasn't impressed when I found a small stone in the grain while I was grinding, still I do think it made the best American brew yet.  Jmo...

Offline blatz

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2010, 12:30:12 PM »
I was wondering if anybody would mention GP since its supposed to be even better than MO. 

who says that?!!  MO is so good the Scots tried to emulate it. :D ;)
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: American 2-Row vs. British Pale
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2010, 11:03:47 AM »
I use MO in American IPAs all the time, I like the way they come out. 
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