Author Topic: Going Green?  (Read 7873 times)

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2010, 08:24:51 AM »
Fred, do you mean because I mentioned schools and teachers?  I didn't mean them personally... but rather the association.  Its a bit ironic with all the other organizations or associations that have been targeted by the government (Reagan and air traffic controllers as an example) being systematically broken... yet the government never strips anything from education.  I agree everyone needs education don't get me wrong, but its like during the prohibition... those organizations are the "untouchables".   They always get what they want or they cause disruption... stopping services such as bussing etc.  They know that the government requires children to attend and if a person doesn't bring their children to school when the bus stops coming that the parents can be in danger of losing their children "under the law".  They could be compared to schoolyard bullies actually. 

I meant no disrespect to any one teacher or school, but to the system itself.  One might say the system resembles communism to some extent.  How much education does the world need really, I've worked with so many people having bachelors degrees working production in factories because there was nothing available in their subject area, and many graduates are even flipping burgers.  I honestly believe people are becoming over educated, there is no demand and there hasn't been for many years.  Not everyone is going to be a rocket scientist or a CEO.

jmo...

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2010, 08:54:36 AM »
I agree, its been very civil I think.   ;D  Nobody is taking shots at individuals.   8)

I went to college when I was in my late 30's and I loved it, it opened up my understanding to a lot of question I had.  But I didn't go because it was the thing to do... I went because I wanted too and I had a plan to use the education that could be used in the real world.  While I was there I met a person that was considered a professional student, he had so many degrees it was pathetic, more degrees than those teaching him in fact.  He was a very nice person and could talk to you about any subject you cared, I enjoyed spending time with him.  But he used the system to get all those degrees, tax dollars.  The year before I graduated with my simple associates degree he finally left school and took a position of can you guess what?   A teacher and he was in his mid to late 50's.    :D  All I can say is I hope he taught students that would otherwise have not had the monies to get an education how to get the monies and I hope they use their education in an area of their expertise and not have to flip burgers.  You do realize that he more than likely retired immediately after acquiring his tenure at the school where he took his teaching position and is still drawing some sort of government pension, he had all his ducks in a row that one!!    :D :D


Offline beerocd

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2010, 09:09:19 AM »
I agree, its been very civil I think.   ;D  Nobody is taking shots at individuals.   8)



It's gone like this....
Point A - this is great
Point B - this suxx because...
Point C - yeah but it would be great except for that corporate greed.
Then Capp comes in with the Muppets.

There's nothing wrong with education, there's no such thing as too much of it. But can you use what you learned, and can you overcome the mountain of debt at the end of your education? Bachelor degree is most often minimum entry requirement for almost all white collar jobs, not that you use that knowledge - it's just an arbitrary hurdle to overcome. I guess it proves that you're trainable.
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2010, 09:16:49 AM »


There's nothing wrong with education, there's no such thing as too much of it. But can you use what you learned, and can you overcome the mountain of debt at the end of your education? Bachelor degree is most often minimum entry requirement for almost all white collar jobs, not that you use that knowledge - it's just an arbitrary hurdle to overcome. I guess it proves that you're trainable.

Agreed, and it should prove expertise in an area also. 

The person I mentioned acquired an expertise in being able to get all those degrees, and I hope he relayed his expertise on to those desiring it as well as inspiring them in the various areas of his education and I'm sure he has.  If I recall correctly, he became a middle school math teacher... the perfect age for children to become inspired as well as begin making a real world plan to attain it.   :)

Offline beerocd

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2010, 09:17:02 AM »
Those who can do. Those who can't teach.

Or maybe they get a salary for teaching, grant money for research, do consulting on the side in their specialty, write books that must be bought by all students for a course, write other books that get published, start their own companies using the research they have done at the university, serve on board of directors for other companies with a nice salary for lending their name reputation and expertise to them, travel the world, invest in real estate, drive fancy cars, etc, etc, etc

Maybe I know one of these guys  (not me)
Seems he "do" just fine. ;)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 09:19:17 AM by beerocd »
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2010, 09:21:28 AM »
beerocd... you didn't happen to build the indestructable guitar neck did you?  ... for a famous guitar player?   ??? 

Offline beerocd

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2010, 09:43:23 AM »
Pfft - a one off? No way. I would rather invent "the snuggie" or "Sham-WOW!" and sell millions. That guitar neck would make me a few thousand maybe - but these others would make me millions. But you gotta call now.... ;D
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline dean

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
  • Me and Hayden, my newest grandson.
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2010, 09:52:23 AM »
Come up with a way to convert plastic grocery bags into fuel for your car.

Hmmm, beer and eggs.... trapped methane?   :D

Offline beerocd

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1400
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2010, 10:20:09 AM »
Come up with a way to convert plastic grocery bags into fuel for your car.

Hmmm, beer and eggs.... trapped methane?   :D

Reminds me of a South Park episode.  :o
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline joelambic

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2010, 10:39:03 AM »
Come up with a way to convert plastic grocery bags into fuel for your car.

Hmmm, beer and eggs.... trapped methane?   :D

Reminds me of a South Park episode.  :o

But had the Simpson's already done it?  :P

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2309
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2010, 01:28:48 PM »
Being the son of a teacher and being engaged to a teacher, I have to laugh whenever people say any one of a number of the cliche things about those who teach. I've had the close up seat for 25 years of educational battles and nine times out of ten, the teachers lose. In my mom's district they can't strike thanks to state law. If the teachers need to get something changed they have to sue (like my mom and her fellow teachers did to force the district to remove the mold from the school)

There are plenty of bad teachers in the system and plenty of good ones and the way the system is setup now (between the administration, budget cuts, disruptive and lazy students) it kills more good teachers than people can imagine. Last time I checked, the average career expectancy for a new teacher is about the same as an NFL running back - 3 years.

They all hit the class room with an expectation that they're going to make a difference; they're going to reach the kids people say are unreachable only to be ground down by an overwhelming wall of apathy and outright hostility. After a few years of that, they either quit, quietly slog on -  trying to hold their head high and keep some small part of their ideals intact, or they give up and completely disconnect. Despite what anyone may think, it is not easy to stand day after day at the front of a classroom trying to engage, educate and control 30-40 hormonally driven and caffeinated squirrelly kids who'd rather be on the internet or the Xbox.

And while efforts like NCLB are an attempt to hold teachers accountable (and talk to any dedicated teacher about the stifling effect of that law on the classroom and innovative techniques and the ruinous idea of treating kids like a corporate widget to be stamped against a set mold), there's nothing out there that addresses the most important part of the equation - the developmental years between 0 and 5. Appropriate stimulation (and Baby Einstein videos don't count) and engagement during those first years mean more developmentally than any educational efforts down the road. Without that foundation, you could deploy an endless army of Ron Clark's and make little headway in engagement.

Yes, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. I loved school. (Whatcha expect from a nerd?) I had some top notch teachers at my little "podunk" public school of 2500 (when I was there.. its closer to 6000 now). Yes, there were bad teachers there and I was a smart ass who made their lives "fun", but by and large I made it out with a ton of knowledge. I've seriously considered becoming a teacher because I love educating and getting ideas across, but there's just no way I can justify the grind (my fiancee works longer hours than I do), the heartache and low pay and I don't think I have the internal fortitude to make it through the disappointment.



Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11654
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2010, 01:30:29 PM »
+ eleventy billion, Drew!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2309
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2010, 01:42:21 PM »
Unfortunately, with so many unneeded spending programs being implemented, teachers will once again be left out.

There's money still coming down from the feds for education. A supplemental package last year saved my fiancee's job. The budget cuts were so deep that initially even teachers like her with 5-6 years seniority were on the chopping block.
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline a10t2

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3157
  • Ask me why I don't like Chico!
    • View Profile
    • SeanTerrill.com
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2010, 01:55:28 PM »
Well said, Drew. I wanted to say something along those lines (my mom and grandfather were teachers) but felt bad about dragging this into the political gutter in the first place.

I really don't get it. Education is EVERYTHING. If we cut everything else, we should give our public schools every penny they ask for and then some. Without education none of the rest is worth a damn. And yes, we should use some of that money to ensure teachers conduct themselves as professionals, but only once we can look in the mirror and admit that they ARE professionals and deserve to be paid as such.

Of course, anyone who disagrees doesn't have to be silent about it. The barriers to entry for a school board election are essentially nonexistent, and most districts would kill for just ONE passionate candidate.
Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own.
http://seanterrill.com/category/brewing/

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2309
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Going Green?
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2010, 02:06:46 PM »
The thing is that education really shouldn't be something political. (Vain hope I know) I don't care what anyone thinks about how it gets funded as long as it does.

What I don't like is the continual bashing of the profession and the overwhelmingly good intentioned people within it.
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison