[phillamb168]

http://fofoa.blogspot.com/

I'm not one of these Glen Beck gold nuts, nor am I an economist, but I am pretty happy with my recent decision to invest in (physical. currency) gold. The current situation, with everything being built on debt, cannot stand. Not advocating a return to the gold standard, but right now gold as a savings vehicle seems to be a good thing.

This is going to get worse before it gets better, and at this point, politics (at least conservative vs liberal) have nothing to do with it, it's beyond that now.

The unfortunate truth to all of this is that we (the western world) have gotten too used to being able to have anything we want with little actually cost. This goes from the guy next door buying on credit the huge TV he doesn't actually need, to the guy a few blocks from him who wanted a mansion on a $40,000 a year paycheck, to the government wanting a war it can't pay for (note please that I am not arguing whether the current war is just or not, I'm just saying we can't afford it). It can't continue.

Reminds me of the old gospel song, "My hope is built on nothing less" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekUGXnRcR-M "All other ground is sinking sand."

[tschmidlin]

The debt is such a huge number it is difficult to understand something that large.  But the debt as a percentage of GDP is way less now than it was during/following WWII.  You can't fix the debt without fixing the economy.

[euge]

It's one giant ponzi scheme. And the scheme is unraveling before our eyes.

Anyway, guys I know this is a BFI thread but politics are like cancer to a beer forum. Unless it's beer politics. Tread wisely

[phillamb168]

I hear you Euge - it's hard to talk about this in a way that avoids politics - although perhaps that means it just shouldn't be discussed on this forum... The problem is that I don't really have any other Americans to talk to about this with, other than you guys. Believe it or not, this forum is pretty much my only contact with the US outside of talking to my dad or brother occasionally, so forgive me if I sometimes toe the line a bit.

[punatic]

The best bacon bit I've heard in a long time:

Glenn Beck on the wisdom of burying OBL at sea:

"If I could have had it my way, I'd have wrapped him in bacon, put him inside a football, and buried him underneath the 50 yard line in the Meadowlands."

Ah yes, I've heard of that recipe. The Jimmy Hoffa, they call it. Also Glenn Back is a putz. "The world is ending! Buy lots of golds!"

But hey, it looks good on you, yah?   

[maxieboy]

 It seems to me like they are just trying to manipulate the markets to get what they want.

Bingo.

[phillamb168]

The best bacon bit I've heard in a long time:

Glenn Beck on the wisdom of burying OBL at sea:

"If I could have had it my way, I'd have wrapped him in bacon, put him inside a football, and buried him underneath the 50 yard line in the Meadowlands."

Ah yes, I've heard of that recipe. The Jimmy Hoffa, they call it. Also Glenn Back is a putz. "The world is ending! Buy lots of golds!"

But hey, it looks good on you, yah?   

My changing my stance on gold does not un-putz glen beck ;-)

[ccarlson]

I hear you Euge - it's hard to talk about this in a way that avoids politics - although perhaps that means it just shouldn't be discussed on this forum... The problem is that I don't really have any other Americans to talk to about this with, other than you guys. Believe it or not, this forum is pretty much my only contact with the US outside of talking to my dad or brother occasionally, so forgive me if I sometimes toe the line a bit.

While I made some earlier comments, I wouldn't suggest getting too wrapped up in this thread. It'll be locked on its own or someone will say something to deliberately get it locked. I would also like to discuss topics like this, but it's true, some people can't do so without getting angry.

[phillamb168]

In that case this'll be my last post... All I'll say is that I think it's not just forums where this anger can come out, but everywhere. Lots of people are angry, regardless of politics. I wish I knew a way to fix it, because I for one think respectful disagreement (and the conversations and compromises that result from it) are one of the most important things we can do. Too many people are drawing lines in the sand these days.

Ok, that's all I wanted to say. I'll go back to talking about pond pumps now.

[ccarlson]

In that case this'll be my last post... All I'll say is that I think it's not just forums where this anger can come out, but everywhere. Lots of people are angry, regardless of politics. I wish I knew a way to fix it, because I for one think respectful disagreement (and the conversations that result from it) are one of the most important things we can do. Too many people are drawing lines in the sand these days.

Ok, that's all I wanted to say. I'll go back to talking about pond pumps now.

Well said. Now go pump your pond.

[phillamb168]

In that case this'll be my last post... All I'll say is that I think it's not just forums where this anger can come out, but everywhere. Lots of people are angry, regardless of politics. I wish I knew a way to fix it, because I for one think respectful disagreement (and the conversations that result from it) are one of the most important things we can do. Too many people are drawing lines in the sand these days.

Ok, that's all I wanted to say. I'll go back to talking about pond pumps now.

Well said. No go pump your pond.

That's what she said?

[theDarkSide]

The debt is such a huge number it is difficult to understand something that large.

I wonder what kind of brew sculpture I could buy for $14 trillion dollars.

[1vertical]

There is a .pdf on this page
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=e03b855e02facc8c1cc49480f6683f2d&p=1905509
That is a great graphic visual of the national debt.  It may help you understand how bizarre this
stack of hundred dollar bills is really ......

[bluefoxicy]

politics are like cancer to a beer forum

It's notable I tend to generally argue economics and philosophy more than politics; I switched to Independent on my voter's registration simply because I hate everyone in office.  Republicans are being stupid, Democrats are being stupid, and who else do we have?  The Greens are stupid; the Libertarians are stupid; the Tea Party is stupid; the Green Tea Party is stupid.

Politics is entirely stupid.

Anything argued on party lines devolves into politically charged, mindless drivel trying to cling to an identity of idealism following some other guys on crap you don't understand.

Forget all that.  Let's just argue from the gut and ignore the politics involved.  That includes ignoring arguments like "Well socialism blahblah and I think it's a better system so blahblah" or "Well free market blahblah and I'm not a communist so we should..."  Stop tailoring arguments to fixed political systems and start looking at what's in front of you.



More notable, though, is I just thought the plane thing was funny.  So far I haven't see anyone accuse the S&P of being a pack of stupid liberals or crazy conservatives; I have seen someone fly a plane by with a banner saying they're all unqualified for their jobs.

[Slowbrew]

On Friday night when I heard S&P was downgrading our debt the first thought I had was "How long will it be before a scandal over all the S&P Execs being primed to short the market, prior to the downgrade, comes out?".

That's really the only reason I can see for them doing it.  Everyone knew if the US lost it's AAA rating the only fast money to be made would be in short trades.  If you knew exactly when the downgrade was coming you could make out like the criminals these guys probably are.

Whatever the correct rating is, the folks at the S&P were manipulating the market.  We just need to wait and see who they were doing it for.

Paul