Author Topic: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral  (Read 8916 times)

Offline phillamb168

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2011, 01:07:24 AM »
It's also a function of market saturation. Facebook is everywhere and used by everyone in terms of my market audience is concerned, but that market is pretty much all urban middle-to-upper income earners. If you go further into the countryside, it makes less sense.
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Offline phunhog

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2011, 11:14:13 PM »
My homebrewery/ wannabe nanobrewery has a Facebook page. I treat it more like a blog but it gets people interested in my beers and brewing in general.  The amount of support and interest has actually been overwhelming seeing how most of these people don't know me, much less tasted my beer!!  As others have stated the amount of regulations on alcohol production on top of just running a business is beyond me right now.  I am lucky enough to have a dream career and pretty good salary.  I only wanted to be a "pro brewer" because I thought it would be "cool" to be able to sell my beer legally. It was NEVER going to be a career change. I think it is unfortunate that "professional " brewing is a this/that operation mainly due to regulations. How many of us would be "pros" if we could sell growlers at farmers markets'? I know that will never happen! Why can't a brewer be like a musician? I know lots of guys who play in bar bands on weekends and have a "normal" job during the week.  They get paid a few dollars but they certainly don't call themselves a "professional" musician.  They do it for the love of music AND they can make a few dollars. Sorry if I got off topic.... ;)

Offline majorvices

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #107 on: August 21, 2011, 07:35:19 AM »
On a 5 or 10 gallon system the beer was always worth way more to me to drink or share with friends than to sell. You put In hours and hours of hard work just to turn around and sell and barely break even and if you count the time and labor you'd actually lose money.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #108 on: August 21, 2011, 10:36:30 AM »
My homebrewery/ wannabe nanobrewery has a Facebook page. I treat it more like a blog but it gets people interested in my beers and brewing in general.  The amount of support and interest has actually been overwhelming seeing how most of these people don't know me, much less tasted my beer!!  As others have stated the amount of regulations on alcohol production on top of just running a business is beyond me right now.  I am lucky enough to have a dream career and pretty good salary.  I only wanted to be a "pro brewer" because I thought it would be "cool" to be able to sell my beer legally. It was NEVER going to be a career change. I think it is unfortunate that "professional " brewing is a this/that operation mainly due to regulations. How many of us would be "pros" if we could sell growlers at farmers markets'? I know that will never happen! Why can't a brewer be like a musician? I know lots of guys who play in bar bands on weekends and have a "normal" job during the week.  They get paid a few dollars but they certainly don't call themselves a "professional" musician.  They do it for the love of music AND they can make a few dollars. Sorry if I got off topic.... ;)

depending on what state you are in it is not impossible to do this. It is true that you will probably not make any money from it but then most bar musicians don't actually make any money from what they do either. I have been a semi pro actor for years now and have yet to make a profit. Course, as soon as you sell your first bottle of legal beer all of those expenses associated with brewing become tax deductible!
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Offline nateo

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #109 on: August 21, 2011, 11:24:35 AM »
Course, as soon as you sell your first bottle of legal beer all of those expenses associated with brewing become tax deductible!

Hobby loss rules are actually pretty strict. The IRS may decide your "business" is actually a "hobby" and therefore you can only deduct up to the amount of revenue generated by said hobby. The "hobby" losses couldn't be used to write off losses from your main source of income. "Craft businesses" run from the home frequently fall into the "hobby" category, regardless of business structure or licensing.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #110 on: August 21, 2011, 01:29:16 PM »
On a 5 or 10 gallon system the beer was always worth way more to me to drink or share with friends than to sell. You put In hours and hours of hard work just to turn around and sell and barely break even and if you count the time and labor you'd actually lose money.
Majorvices,
Somehow people do not want to listen.
Let them learn hard way.

It is like talking about water for BoPils.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #111 on: August 21, 2011, 01:56:24 PM »
Majorvices,
Somehow people do not want to listen.
Let them learn hard way.

It is like talking about water for BoPils.

It's a basic economic issue we learned in Micro 101. It's all about opportunity cost. Unless you're really hurting for money and working in a field or a sweatshop somewhere, there is a point where your free time is more valuable to you than any money you'd make by working more. Some people would rather work 100 hours a week as a nanobrewer than work 40 hours a week and make more money, and have more free time for homebrewing.

Also, what's the deal with bopils water?
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Offline maxieboy

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #112 on: August 21, 2011, 04:54:22 PM »
there is a point where your free time is more valuable to you than any money you'd make by working more.

You should see the blank look on a lot of people's faces when I say this.  ::)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 07:53:57 PM by maxieboy »
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2011, 05:20:14 PM »
Also, what's the deal with bopils water?
People ask what kind of water they should use to brew BoPils.
All they want to hear back is that it should be very soft.
If you tell them, that it can be from soft to moderate they ignore you.

Truth is that Bo Pils is brewed in the whole Czech and Slovak republic.
This is pretty large geographical area and water do very.

The same thing goes with size of brew system.
This discussion shows that people want to hear that brew on 1 BBL system is enough.
Truth is that there is only so many 100 hour weeks till your body said enough.

I made that transition.
Now I brew on 5 BBL system to 10 BBL fermenters and I still do not make enough.
I wish to have weekend off.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 07:49:14 PM by Thirsty_Monk »
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Smoked Bock
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2011, 06:54:07 PM »
I think there's some credence to the professions that majorvices and thirsty monk are trying to instill  here. I wouldn't be willing to recreate wheel in this regard. I am learning and trying to understand the reality of professional brewing. It's becoming more and more apparent to me that this is not a labor for the meek minded or hearted. This is a labor of love. There is no denying that, and I am convinced that the efforts involved to establish a pro brewery are behemoth in nature.

When looking at the successes of some of the most successful proprietorships in the pro brewing world, it is apparent that there is an endless mountain of work involved in establishing, marketing, selling and maintaining a successful level of business. I am amazed by this, and I can't overlook this fact.

I have only dreamed of establishing a pro-brewery. This is a dream for many of us here. I am hoping to learn by standing on the shoulders of those who have already walked and stumbled only to stand up and continue successfully.

Good luck to majorvices and thirsty monk.
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Offline bo

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #115 on: August 21, 2011, 08:41:52 PM »
This is my favorite thread. The opinions, while very enlightening, are also very amusing .

Offline phunhog

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2011, 10:57:28 PM »
May be I am a fool but that is how I see it.

Nope, I don't think you are a fool at all. There are a few "breweries" that have been popping up that have T-Shirts, Glasses, Coasters, Stickers, even tap handles - but no beer! Seriously! Talk about putting your cart before the horse.

Hey that sounds like me!! ;D Seriously....I sell my "brewery" t-shirts and other merchandise and pour at beer festivals where they allow home brewers to pour next to the "pros".  I guess I am like a "semi pro" brewer. :D As others have stated, there is no money to be made in nanobrewing. Maybe as a steppingstone but in and of itself it is a deadend IMO. So why try and be a pro brewer when you can stay a homebrewer and sell your brewery's merch? Much easier to make money selling t-shirts than it is wholesale beer!! People still get to have my beer at beer festivals and private, invite only tasting parties. I get to brew a lot, have fun, make a little money, and not jump through a million hoops trying to run a professional brewery.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #117 on: August 22, 2011, 04:39:50 AM »
We actually make a decent profit selling t-Shirts and bring in a good amount of petty cash that way. We can walk out of a brew fest with a $300-$500 profit in shirt sales.

Re: Opening a brewery and the hardships you face. Once you have jumped through the hurdles there is a great amount of pride that comes with that. Even though I eschew all the regulations and hurdles one must jump through we reminded ourselves all the time during construction or dropping big bucks for this license or that piece of equipment that if it was easy everyone would be doing it. In the end the hard work and hurdle jumping is what separates the dreamers from the doers.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #118 on: August 22, 2011, 05:08:22 AM »
Brewing on a small scale is a young man's game from what I can see.  The physical labor is demanding, it can be hot, the hours can be long, things can go wrong and you have to fix it quickly.  Did I mention that it can be a hot job?

The wife and I have done 2 batches on commercial systems.  One was easy, but that was at Sierra Nevada's Beer Camp, where even the pilot system is mostly automated (lifted sacks to dump in the auger bin, and shoveled hops out of the whirlpool).  The other was at Grizzly Peak in Ann Arbor, which has a 7 barrel Peter Ausin/Alan Pugsley 7 barrel system.  That was just a big homebrewing system as far as I experienced, 21 times bigger to be exact.  That was a long hard day, and we went outside to sit in the 95F temperature in direct sunlight to cool off.  I said it could be hot.

For those that brew on such systems, I have great respect for the labor involved.   Duncan and his crew (2 assistants) at the Griz turn out some tasty beer, and manage to make >1700 barrels/year on a system that is not automated. 

Keith and Leos have my respect for doing this and making a go of it.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Brewery Financing for someone with no wealth/collateral
« Reply #119 on: August 22, 2011, 06:51:12 AM »
Thanks Jeff - I have been envious of your brewing on the Sierra Nevada pilot system. Was that beer camp?

As far as heat goes; it's been a hot as hell summer down here in the sunny (and humid) south. More than once when the heat index was 110 outside I stepped outside the brewery to cool off. OTOH I do have a cold room and Air COnditioned office.

Brewery work is about as blue collar work as you can get. If you don't picture yourself as a laborer don't take up brewery work. It's not ditch digging, but it is hard work and long days.
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