Author Topic: canning  (Read 4329 times)

Offline euge

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Re: canning
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 11:42:01 AM »
I'm seeing reccomendations to ONLY use established recipes. I see the benefit to this but question how people managed to can all manner of fruits and vegetables etc without said guidelines.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Online morticaixavier

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Re: canning
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 01:19:16 PM »
I'm seeing reccomendations to ONLY use established recipes. I see the benefit to this but question how people managed to can all manner of fruits and vegetables etc without said guidelines.


I wonder that myself. Trial and Error? university studies? One answer is that alot of people died or got very sick before the guidlines were developed. But if you look it over you will see that there are basic Ph levels that must be met (boiling water v. preasure) and various processing times required for optimal safety. If making an actuall recipe I think the guidline is to base your method selection and processing time on the ingredient that is most sensitive eg. if you are canning chili use the times and methods laid out for canning meat (or means in non-meat chili)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 01:21:09 PM by morticaixavier »
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Jonathan I Fuller

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Re: canning
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 02:07:40 PM »
If the lid wasn't concave, people threw out the food...period...

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Offline tubercle

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Re: canning
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 04:40:46 PM »
So if canning in the PC does the water have to be up to the rim of the jar?

You asking about the water inside or outside the canning jar?  If inside, it's like morticia says, fill it to within a quarter inch or so of the rim (I usually fill to the "shoulder" of the jar).  If outside, you only need enough water in the canner such that it doesn't all boil off before you're done - the steam is doing the work (my canner says to add 3 qts).

 I only put about 3 inches of water in mine. Let it come to a boil with the vent open and let it steam about 10 minutes to evacuate all the air and then put the weight on to start building pressure.

 You need to have a rack that goes in the bottom so the jars do not sit directly on the bottom of the pot.

 BTW...do not start timing until the proper pressure has been reached.
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Offline tubercle

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Re: canning
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2011, 04:49:42 PM »

Also with the lids on?

Yes, with the lids on; that is the whole purpose.

 Just don't tighten the rings too much. About all the pressure you can get with the thumb and index finger. The purpose of the rings is to hold the lids in place until they seal. After 24 hours and the jars have cooled completely you can take the rings off.

 Here is one source of the USDA publications:

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html
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Offline euge

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Re: canning
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2011, 12:30:03 AM »
Yeah I don't know why I asked that.

My 6qt Fagor pressurizes up 15psi and 250F. This ought to be enough to pressure-can low acid foods.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: canning
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2011, 08:18:58 AM »
Yeah I don't know why I asked that.

My 6qt Fagor pressurizes up 15psi and 250F. This ought to be enough to pressure-can low acid foods.

it sure ought!

Check out that USDA canning guide for times and preasure. and altitude adjustments. you probably don't need to go all the way up to 15 psi and your food will get less mushy if you keep the time and temp minimum.
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Offline euge

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Re: canning
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2011, 01:53:54 AM »
I just tried to pressure-can. A trial run. Prepared some green chile salsa and filled five boiled 1/2 pint jars. Tightened the rings finger tight and PC'd on a trivet in about 1" water for 15 minutes with a 10 minute natural release.

Only one jar survived.

The rest leaked real bad and when cooled the rings gave way very easily.

I could have tightened them more but stopped just past the first snugness. Maybe another 5-10 degrees?

Interestingly, the salsa turned out good- the flavors melded and it isn't too mushy. Hot fire in my belly. :)
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

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Re: canning
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2011, 10:43:26 AM »
cool. it's a start. I to tested my preasure canner last night with three pint jars of starter wort. worked like a charm.

Was the salsa hot or cold when it went in the jars? if cold that might have causes the leakage as the expansion from heat made the jars overfull. also make sure to remove bubbles for the same reason.
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Offline euge

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Re: canning
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2011, 10:51:55 AM »
cool. it's a start. I to tested my preasure canner last night with three pint jars of starter wort. worked like a charm.

Was the salsa hot or cold when it went in the jars? if cold that might have causes the leakage as the expansion from heat made the jars overfull. also make sure to remove bubbles for the same reason.

Warm. I rapped the little jars against the cutting board to settle the contents before capping, but if there were bubbles I didn't see them. Doesn't mean they weren't in there. Probably multiple mistakes.
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Re: canning
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2011, 11:14:09 AM »
cool. it's a start. I to tested my preasure canner last night with three pint jars of starter wort. worked like a charm.

Was the salsa hot or cold when it went in the jars? if cold that might have causes the leakage as the expansion from heat made the jars overfull. also make sure to remove bubbles for the same reason.

Warm. I rapped the little jars against the cutting board to settle the contents before capping, but if there were bubbles I didn't see them. Doesn't mean they weren't in there. Probably multiple mistakes.

hmm, well this will be a learning experience for me to. I have canned in a water bath but this is the first time I have done preasure canning. The wort is probably easy cause it was near boiling when it went into the jars and it's harder to get air bubbles in a water type liquid with no solid. Got really good hot break though . The wort was much clearer after the canning than before.
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Offline tubercle

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Re: canning
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2011, 03:07:38 PM »
I just tried to pressure-can. A trial run. Prepared some green chile salsa and filled five boiled 1/2 pint jars. Tightened the rings finger tight and PC'd on a trivet in about 1" water for 15 minutes with a 10 minute natural release.

Only one jar survived.

The rest leaked real bad and when cooled the rings gave way very easily.

I could have tightened them more but stopped just past the first snugness. Maybe another 5-10 degrees?

Interestingly, the salsa turned out good- the flavors melded and it isn't too mushy. Hot fire in my belly. :)

 Sounds like you might have had the jars too full. Leave 1 inch of headspace - no more, no less. If the ingridents boil out and get between the lid and rim they won't seal. You can snug them down a little more also. The principle is the air escapes out when boiling and then seals and creates a vaccum as it cools. If the rings are cinched down too tight the air can't escape and real tight will distort the sealing surface and keep them from sealing.

 Start with hot jars and hot ingredients. Put the jars in boiling water. If you don't have an extra pot that big, fill the jars with water and sit them in a pot with at least water half way up and bring to a boil. Start with cold water inside and out to prevent cracking. If you have a big pot put the jars on their sides and boil. Start with cold again for the same reason.

 Be careful of the hot jars and water. Get you one of these if you are taking this seriously. It will save your hide. It has all the handy tools you need.
http://www.amazon.com/Back-Basics-286-5-Piece-Canning/dp/B0002BF1WY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314395947&sr=8-1 (if you use this funnel and fill till the ingriedents touch the bottom then you will have the correct headspace)

 Dump the water, fill to within one inch of headspace, wipe the rims to make sure there is nothing on them, lid and ring.

 After cooking, let the cooker cool down and on its own and release pressure naturally. At this point it will be at 212f (or your boiling point depending on altitude so be careful). Don't release it manually or run cold water on it. That will also cause the contents to boil over.
 
 Take them out and leave the rings on and let them cool completely at least 12 hours. Set them on a towel and leave a couple of inches between them. The lids will "pop" concave in 10 - 30 minutes but they haven't pulled a complete vaccum until everything is room temp. If one doesn't seal, throw away the lid, wipe the rim and re-lid using a new one and try again. If you can't do it right away, then refridgerate and eat soon.

 Never reuse a lid. The rubber seal part is heat activated and it can't be reused.

 Try again, we'll get you canning yet :D
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 03:14:59 PM by tubercle »
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Offline brushvalleybrewer

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Re: canning
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2011, 06:33:22 AM »
I'm seeing reccomendations to ONLY use established recipes. I see the benefit to this but question how people managed to can all manner of fruits and vegetables etc without said guidelines.

I highly recommend the Ball Complete Book of Home Preserving and the Ball Blue Book. It will take you years and more vegetables than you can shake a stick at to get through all the recipes in these two books. Good stuff, too.

They also include some basics on how and why, as well.

The thing to remember is that, while there are no known bugs that live in beer that will make you sick, that is not the case in general for canned food.

There are things that can live in you canned food that will create heat stable toxins that will still make you sick even though you cook it.

That’s why you want to use a tested recipe.

There’s also the USDA Complete Guide to Home Canning if you want something you can read online.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 10:23:26 AM by brushvalleybrewer »
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: canning
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2011, 09:45:18 AM »
Well I spent the afternoon/evening yesterday canning tomatoes and sauce. Ended up with 9 quarts of tomatoes half full of tomatos and half full of water. I think they will still be fine, they all sealed but I think next time I will have to cook them down a little first.

also canned 3 pints of sauce made from the culls of the canning pile.those worked great.
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Offline James Lorden

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Re: canning
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2011, 02:12:38 PM »
I rarely  buy a jar of tomatoe sauce anymore.  I generally make three gallons at a time and can it.  I usually make meatballs and sausage at the same time.  I freeze the meats in ziplocs that equal about a meal's woth and can the sauce.  Makes for great Sunday dinners!

I also always have canned chicken stock on hand.  I generally always buy whole chickens then butcher them myself (if in a rush for time you can usually ask the guy behind the meat counter to do this for you!).  I save the scraps until I have enough to make a stock, then I can the stock.... so easy to make a soup on a winter day.

I was thinking of making a stove top mash then canning the wort. Wondering if I should boil then can or just put wort right into the jars and boil as part of the canning process... guessing the latter would leave a lot of break material in the jar.
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