Author Topic: Don't know what to think  (Read 3651 times)

Offline stlaleman

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 01:02:28 PM »
If you can keep the harvest to musical instruments, it most likely would be sustainable, but alas, most of the harvested wood goes for furniture. The same problem is taking place in the Pacific Northwest with Sitka Spruce. One of the best soundboard materials out there (having built a couple hundred musical instruments, I've been able to compare), but the bulk of the old growth timber being harvested goes to Korea, where it could end up as nylon. Soon there won't be any cutting allowed of this resource as we squander it away now. Then what will we use for soundboards?

Offline denny

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 03:42:46 PM »
If you get a chance go see them on this tour. They have put a phenomenal band together. I expected them to be good but, damn - thyy were awesome.

I saw them on the first tour they ever did, opening for Zappa in 1980. 
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 04:48:18 PM »
The problem with harvesting these exotic woods isn't centered around how much wood goes into a single guitar or even 1000 guitars.  The root of the problem is the means by which the harvesting is usually done.  These woods come from places where people are very poor and typically not educated very well.  They either clear cut the forest to get the few trees there. that they would like to sell, or they get paid small amounts of money to let a logging company do it.  We really are killing ourselves for pretty baubles.

That being said, it doesn't make any sense to take an instrument that was manufactured long before using these woods became illegal.  The person buying an antique piano can't control how the ivory on the keys was sources 50+ years ago.  How many of the people creating these laws will proudly show off the fireplace mantle and wall their Granddad had built out of old growth mahogany?  Same thing in my mind.

If Gibson intentionally and willing purchased illegal wood, throw the book at them.  If they can show they really did believe the product was (or is) legal than this is a non-story.  What's next?  Raiding state fairs during performances and confiscating guitars from the stage?  Then arresting the people in the stands for aiding and abetting?

We live in sad times.

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Offline nicneufeld

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 05:08:24 PM »
I saw them on the first tour they ever did, opening for Zappa in 1980. 

Sure it wasn't 1970 or 71 or so?  By 1980 they were recording Gaucho, on the verge of a 15 year hiatus, and had long since given up touring (which they did in the early 70s, but eventually hated it and became a studio only band).  I think it was either Pretzel Logic or Katy Lied that was their last album as a touring band...then Royal Scam, Aja, and Gaucho, where they really honed their art.  Seems like they really enjoy touring now though, been at it for 15 years now, again. 

At least with sitars the scarcity of wood isn't a big problem.  Tun (Indian mahogany) is pretty plentiful, although teak (at least good, instrument grade teak) less so.  But the "sound box" of a sitar is a large dried calabash gourd, so I imagine those should always be readily available!

Offline bo

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2011, 05:47:43 PM »
I saw them on the first tour they ever did, opening for Zappa in 1980. 

Sure it wasn't 1970 or 71 or so?  By 1980 they were recording Gaucho, on the verge of a 15 year hiatus, and had long since given up touring (which they did in the early 70s, but eventually hated it and became a studio only band).  I think it was either Pretzel Logic or Katy Lied that was their last album as a touring band...then Royal Scam, Aja, and Gaucho, where they really honed their art.  Seems like they really enjoy touring now though, been at it for 15 years now, again. 

At least with sitars the scarcity of wood isn't a big problem.  Tun (Indian mahogany) is pretty plentiful, although teak (at least good, instrument grade teak) less so.  But the "sound box" of a sitar is a large dried calabash gourd, so I imagine those should always be readily available!

Good to know. I'd hate to miss out any new Hindu rock.  ;D

Offline denny

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2011, 05:50:10 PM »
Sure it wasn't 1970 or 71 or so?  By 1980 they were recording Gaucho, on the verge of a 15 year hiatus, and had long since given up touring (which they did in the early 70s, but eventually hated it and became a studio only band).  I think it was either Pretzel Logic or Katy Lied that was their last album as a touring band...then Royal Scam, Aja, and Gaucho, where they really honed their art.  Seems like they really enjoy touring now though, been at it for 15 years now, again.

You're absolutely right, it was 1970, not 80.
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Offline MDixon

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2011, 11:28:30 PM »
I didn't post earlier, but figured after several pints of various O'fest what the heck. I read the WSJ article when it first came out and thought (still think) what a waste of resources. We could seriously lay off this entire group of people and those like them and save some coin. Now it is not good if Gibson has illegally harvested wood on their property, but to allocate resources to do a witch hunt is absurd.

As to whether or not a tree from a particular forest can make the difference in sound - the jury may be out - I'd say on an accoustic guitar is may make a difference, on an electric, not so much. I would bet SRV could still play his brain out on a Squier.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 02:42:30 AM »


Was a big SD fan way back when. 


Some of their new stuff is awesome. "Everything Must Go" was their latest album, it won a grammy. Worth the purchase of the album for sure. "Two Against Nature" also had some really good songs on it. And Fagen's "Kamikiriad" was a solo album but since Becker produced it it sounds like Steely Dan. good stuff, all of it.

Offline nicneufeld

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 12:37:01 PM »
Also check out Morph the Cat, Fagen's newest...good album!  Love all his solo stuff, and I definitely preferred the new Dan album to Two Against Nature, which I liked, just didn't LOVE.

And this '82 album is classic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANA5MGMKyBU

Offline Kit B

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2011, 06:04:18 PM »
Heavy marketing to consumers over the past several decades has created this environment, where people who couldn't tell the difference between a Strat and a Tele, when blindfolded, will wax on about how they can't settle for a solid state rectifier and the KT88 tubes in their amp are non-negotiable.

If a person plays either regularly & can't tell after strapping one on & strumming...They should probably hang it up.

Offline nicneufeld

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 06:59:49 PM »
If a person plays either regularly & can't tell after strapping one on & strumming...They should probably hang it up.

I bet it would be very easy to engineer a blindfolded sound test where at least 90% of guitarists could not consistently tell the difference...the amount of variations available in factory and aftermarket strat and tele pickups are such that as long as you avoid the middle pickup (the 2, 4 positions are a dead giveaway on a strat) there is a wide area of overlap.  Strat and Tele in the neck position, if with comparable strength pickups?  You hear a song on the radio and think, "well, that chrome pickup cover really deadens the tone..."  I think more people like to THINK they can tell a difference, than actually do.

Of course, if you strap one on, then you should be able to figure it out in a tactile way regardless!

Offline Kit B

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Re: Don't know what to think
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2011, 07:34:59 PM »
I've always been partial to the amazing tones & deepness you can get from a Tele.
Strats just can't make certain kinds of noise.