Author Topic: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.  (Read 1083 times)

Offline JKL

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Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« on: September 01, 2011, 01:03:10 PM »
I'm switching gears this weekend and decided to do a Rye CDA or whatever you want to call it.  Thinking of a cross between a Hop Rod Rye and a CDA. Here is what I have so far.  Looking to come in around 1.072 OG / 1.012 FG and 75 ibu.  My big question is how to get it darker without adding too much roastiness. I thought a .5 lb of Carafa III would have done the trick but according to this free recipe builder I'm using here at work it comes in low on the color chart.  

Original Gravity (OG): 1.073  (°P): 17.7
Final Gravity (FG):    1.018  (°P): 4.6
Alcohol (ABV):         7.17 %
Colour (SRM):          17.2   (EBC): 33.9
Bitterness (IBU):      69.6   (Tinseth)

69.57% American 2-Row
11.59% Rye Malt
5.8% Flaked Rye
5.8% Munich I
5.8% Victory
1.45% Carafa III malt
"Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire." -David Rains Wallace

John K. Lee
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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 01:14:25 PM »
cold steep of the dark grains?
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 01:22:41 PM »
Add the dark malts (carafa III) during the sparge instead of the entire mash, but carafa is pretty low on roastiness anyway.  Roastiness and citrusy hops don't taste good together IMO, so by adding dark malts (even Chocolate) during the sparge that should tame down the roastiness and still give you the color you want.  Another option that was given to me was to use Siminar (sp?) for color.
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Offline hoser

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 01:42:10 PM »
For starters you will need more Carafa III if you are brewing a CDA.  I generally use 5-6% in my CDAs.  17SRM is more amber in color, think Arrogant Bastard, maybe even a shade lighter.  A CDA should be approaching an SRM of at least 30. If you are using dehusked Carafa III or Carafa Special, I don't think it matters when you add them: mash, sparge, cold steep.  The roast character is minimal IMHO.  I even think a little is appropriate in a CDA.  It seems to go well with dank hops like Simcoe, coumbus, apollo, etc. I would not add Sinamar, but that is my own bias because I don't like the taste of it and I can generally tell when it is used.  I also, prefer my CDAs without chocolate, but once again, my own bias. ;D

Offline JKL

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 01:48:52 PM »
I'm trying to get away with ingredients I have already.  I read somewhere else that if you grind the Carafa III in a coffee grinder an then add that to the top of the mash at sparge you can get a little more color.  I wonder if a pound would be enough doing it that way?
-J.K.L. 
"Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire." -David Rains Wallace

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Offline hoser

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 02:02:09 PM »
I'm trying to get away with ingredients I have already.  I read somewhere else that if you grind the Carafa III in a coffee grinder an then add that to the top of the mash at sparge you can get a little more color.  I wonder if a pound would be enough doing it that way?
-J.K.L.  
I generally grind my carafa III in a coffee grinder, but I just throw it in a at the start of the mash.  I'm lazy ;) I have never had anyone comment on the beer being to roasty in comps or when tasting it.  I generally get comments of it being too dank or hoppy ;D.  I think a pound should do the trick, it gets you to approx. 31 SRM.  Also, with that much rye and using a roasted grain I would advise a pound or 2 of rice hulls to avoid a stuck mash.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 02:06:53 PM by hoser »

Offline JKL

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2011, 03:18:52 PM »
Thanks for the help guys.  I'll stick with the 1 ground pound.  I'm thinking I may take this in a DC RyePA kinda way and add some wheat and carapils but still use CTZ's and Cents.  I have some Citra too, but I dont know how those might play off the rye?
-J.K.L.
"Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire." -David Rains Wallace

John K. Lee
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Rock City, AR

Offline beersk

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 10:57:14 AM »
I like my Cross Dressing Amateurs with some roast in them.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 12:24:10 PM »
I use anywhere from 6-12% Carafa Special II in my Black IPAs and I add them at sparge (and I sparge cooler than usual). You still get a noticeable roast character. Oreo cookie is how I describe it. The only time anyone mentioned it being too roasty was when I used the smallest amount, actually (I think they found the beer too minerally and believed that came from the roast, not the water). I would treat the mash water as you would for a pale ale and the sparge water should just remail soft (add some extra sulfate in the boil if you must). I think getting the water right is a big part of nailing this style. If you mash with the dark grains, then you will need a suitable water profile for a proper mash and your final beer will taste like a hoppy porter. If you keep the water more APA/IPA-appropriate, but still manage to use the dark malts without a pH issue, your resulting beer will be more IPA-like

Offline hoser

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Re: Help building Black RyePA / Rye CDA please.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 01:10:10 PM »
I use anywhere from 6-12% Carafa Special II in my Black IPAs and I add them at sparge (and I sparge cooler than usual). You still get a noticeable roast character. Oreo cookie is how I describe it. The only time anyone mentioned it being too roasty was when I used the smallest amount, actually (I think they found the beer too minerally and believed that came from the roast, not the water). I would treat the mash water as you would for a pale ale and the sparge water should just remail soft (add some extra sulfate in the boil if you must). I think getting the water right is a big part of nailing this style. If you mash with the dark grains, then you will need a suitable water profile for a proper mash and your final beer will taste like a hoppy porter. If you keep the water more APA/IPA-appropriate, but still manage to use the dark malts without a pH issue, your resulting beer will be more IPA-like

I agree that high carbonate water could lead to a very roasty, astringent flavor in CDAs.  I generally dilute my tap water with 50-60% R/O water and adjust back with sulfate in the kettle when doing hoppy ales.  I also try to keep my sparge water pH around 6 for all beers.

Citra hops would work fine in a CDA as their citrus quality will play off well with the dank CTZ flavor.