Author Topic: Lager Candy Sweetness  (Read 1834 times)

Offline thcipriani

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Lager Candy Sweetness
« on: September 03, 2011, 09:21:24 AM »
I've got a fairly young oktoberfest on tap and, as is my want, I've been periodically sampling as the beer matures.

Recently I've noticed a candy-like malt sweetness develop that I don't like/want. It's Jamil's Oktoberfest recipe with no substitutions save using WLP833. What, in your experience, causes this?

I didn't do a cell count, but I did use the mrmalty calculator so I probably pitched fairly close to 1.5 million/mL/P; however, after doing counts on some pitches I've been surprised. That is to say, I wouldn't be surprised if I underpitched slightly - is that typically a cause?

I used single-infusion mash regiment and the final gravity was 1.014.
Tyler Cipriani
Longmont, CO

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2011, 11:34:00 AM »
Sorry too lazy to look at BCS recipe.
What malts did you use?
What was your OG?

One way to push the sweetness back it to over carbonate beer to 2.7-2.8 volumes.
CO2 will make carbonic acid that will cover some if the sweetness. (well I said that twice).
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Offline pweis909

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2011, 02:32:32 PM »
Doesn't this recipe have crystal malt in it? That's where I would expect the sweetness to come from. I seem to recall he said something about using crystal in O-fests and skipping it in Vienna. Maybe you would prefer his Vienna lager recipe?

Offline thcipriani

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2011, 03:49:38 PM »
The recipe I used:

1.8 Kg Pils (used Weyermann)
1.8 Kg Munich (used 7L Global)
1.4 Kg Vienna
500g CaraMunich I

43g Hallertau Hersbrucker (2%AA) @ 60min
14g " " " @ 15min

833 German Bock yeast grown in 4L 1.030 starter on stir plate
Tyler Cipriani
Longmont, CO

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 07:40:47 PM »
The recipe I used:

1.8 Kg Pils (used Weyermann)
1.8 Kg Munich (used 7L Global)
1.4 Kg Vienna
500g CaraMunich I

43g Hallertau Hersbrucker (2%AA) @ 60min
14g " " " @ 15min

833 German Bock yeast grown in 4L 1.030 starter on stir plate
You have there almost 9% of caramunich. That is a little bit more what I would use.
What is your IBU?
Oktoberfest should be about 24-26 IBUs.
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Offline skyler

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 11:49:54 AM »
That's over a pound of crystal. I am not expert on the style, but my instincts would be to put no more than 8 oz or so.

Offline gordonstrong

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 03:04:22 PM »
Oxidation?
Gordon Strong • Beavercreek, Ohio • AHA Member since 1997 • Twitter: GordonStrong

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 04:51:25 PM »
Oxidation?

This is going to give a sweet sensation?  I ask because I've battled this sort of thing from time to time and wondered about oxidation as a possible cause.
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Offline malzig

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 04:50:18 AM »
That's over a pound of crystal. I am not expert on the style, but my instincts would be to put no more than 8 oz or so.
Or even 4 oz or less.  I'd expect a pound+ of Caramunich to be very sweet indeed.

Offline James Lorden

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 06:18:46 AM »
Gordon stole my answer - apparently he seems to know a thing or two about tasting beer. ;)  I also have heard that slight oxidation in darket beers adds a certain sweetness (like in old ales).  The traditional wet cardboard flavor comes more in lighter colored beers.

Alc. can also add a sweet impression especially if the beer overall is very dry.

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Offline denny

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 08:29:22 AM »
Oxidation?

This is going to give a sweet sensation?  I ask because I've battled this sort of thing from time to time and wondered about oxidation as a possible cause.

I've noticed that oxidation can impart a kind of strange caramel quality to a beer.
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Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 08:29:46 AM »
Have you ever smelled honey in the aroma of a German lager here in the States?  Sometimes you even get a sweet honey taste.  This is due to 2,3-pentanedione, which is an oxidation product.  The beer has not turned to cardboard yet, but it has started the journey.

The CaraMunich looks to be high at first glance, but I think Gordon had it right.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 05:19:43 PM »
Great, another normal flavor to worry about!

Thanks for the advice though.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 05:31:29 PM »
Great, another normal flavor to worry about!

Thanks for the advice though.

If you were replying to my post, I must say that the distinct honey aroma in a German lager is something that you don't get drinking the beer in Germany.  You get malt, a crackery Pils malt sweetness in the aroma, but not honey in the aroma/flavor.

I will look for this next time in Germany, to do research, you know.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Lager Candy Sweetness
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 05:43:15 PM »
I do not think that the honey notes in the flavor of a pilsner malt beer are all entirely due to staling.  I tend to think of some honey as being part of the flavor profile of pils malt beers, especially very young ones or under attenuated ones.  This does not mean that honey flavors can't be the beginning of oxidative notes, but they can also be from other ingredients.
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