Poll

Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?

Yes
5 (45.5%)
No
6 (54.5%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?  (Read 3205 times)

Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2010, 02:33:28 PM »
I'm not sure it matters, I usually just add it to the top of the beer after kegging, then drop into the lagering freezer.
Keith Y.
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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2010, 02:49:18 PM »
Some brewers argue that you should develop the haze before you add the fining agent. The yeast haze is already there but chill haze will develop at colder temps. But I don't know how much less effective it would be if the gelatin is added when the beer is still "warm". It may still be able to remove haze precursors even if the haze has not formed yet. 

Kai

Offline Travis

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2010, 03:06:45 PM »
I don't do a protein rest, but do lager my Kolsch for 6-8 weeks at 32Fto get the yeast (Wyeast) to drop out.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 03:09:28 PM »
I don't do a protein rest, but do lager my Kolsch for 6-8 weeks at 32Fto get the yeast (Wyeast) to drop out.

6-8 weeks is way too long. 2-3 weeks is plenty of time. These beers are best when fresh. My kegs are beat by 8 weeks.  ;)
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Offline pjj2ba

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 07:31:38 PM »
I do a protein rest for my Kolsch, Alt, and all of my lagers (all have a fair bit of pilsner malt).  I find I get a bit more body than if I don't, which is my main reason for doing it.  Sometime this winter I'll do back to back German lager brews (exact same ingredient list) with and without a p-rest to really help me decide.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 03:55:56 AM by majorvices »

Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2010, 03:56:11 AM »
I do a protein rest for my Kolsch, Alt, and all of my lagers (all have a fair bit of pilsner malt).  I find I get a bit more body than if I don't, which is my main reason for doing it.  Sometime this winter I'll do back to back German lager brews (exact same ingredient list) with and without a p-rest to really help me decide.



Funny, because, at least theoretically, you should be getting less body and less head retention since you are breaking down the protein even further. Really, with todays 2 row pils malts p-rests could be doing more harm than good.
Keith Y.
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Offline k4df4l

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2010, 05:05:37 AM »
I brewed it yesterday.  Mashed at 152F (150F after an hour, 0deg out). The wort was clear going into the fermentor (not sure if that means much.

Probably means you nailed you pH and had a good hot break which will most likely give you a very clear bveer. One thing I think I should mention though, kolsch yeasts are notoriously hard to drop and are very low flocculators, kind of a "dusty" strain. The White Labs strain clears a lot faster than the Wyeast strain - however often times both are fairly hazy, which is why the style is traditionally filtered in Germany. I use gelatin and a secondary bright tank to get my kolsch clear.

I'll second that observation on the White Labs vs Wyeast strains.  WLP029 has been significantly more flocculant in my brewing than 2565.  After a couple weeks of lagering though, both are plenty clear for me.

Offline karlh

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2010, 05:40:02 AM »
I have never used a protein rest for kolsch.  My recipie uses  5% wheat malt.  I have never had clarity issues.
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Offline Beertracker

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2010, 10:24:40 AM »
Fix says, "YES"... so that's good enough for me.  ;)
CHEERS! Jeff
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2010, 10:31:42 AM »
Hate to say this, but his book is based on slightly outdated brewing principals.... most of the current information I have read (including that coming from professional brewers) says no p-rest needed, and that a p-rest on highly modified malts can cause more harm than good. Even Noonan suggests on in his book .... but again, those were written a while ago and have not been updated.

In the end, try it yourself. I started out using it. Read it wasn't necessary (I believe actually it was Denny who pointed it out) tried skipping it and haven't gone back since. YMMV .... but I doubt it.  ;)
Keith Y.
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Offline denny

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2010, 10:40:06 AM »
Fix says, "YES"... so that's good enough for me.  ;)

Fix would also have you make an Ofest with pale malt and large amounts of crystal, too.  The fact is that things have changed a lot since his great books were written.  It's too bad we don't have his insights today with all the great new ingredients and techniques that are around.
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Offline Beertracker

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2010, 10:49:52 AM »
... It's too bad we don't have his insights today with all the great new ingredients and techniques that are around.

You said a mouthful there! It certainly would've been interesting to see how he'd of weighed in on 'modernization vs. tradition' because that's really what we're talking about here.  ;)     

CHEERS! Jeff
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2010, 11:03:02 AM »
It was only "tradition" because at one point in time it was needed. With today's 2-row pilsner malts it is not needed any longer.  ;)
Keith Y.
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Offline Beertracker

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2010, 01:12:41 PM »
It was only "tradition" because at one point in time it was needed. With today's 2-row pilsner malts it is not needed any longer.  ;)

I'll agree to disagree with you on that point major, as my reason for still utilizing a step is just as valid as yours for not. I'm just sayin'!  :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:21:18 PM by Beertracker »
CHEERS! Jeff
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Kolsch - Protein Rest or Not ?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2010, 01:25:52 PM »
What? You mean you don't want to debate this for another 6 pages?  ???

 ;D
Keith Y.
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