Author Topic: German Hefeweizen  (Read 7648 times)

Offline bluesman

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German Hefeweizen
« on: September 14, 2011, 11:43:03 AM »
I am planning to brew one in the next week or two and wanted to hear your reviews/opinions on mash schedules. I'm undecided on a mash schedule, single infusion, step mash or decoction mash. I've seen quite a few mash variations and would like to know how your particular mash schedule has affected the flavor and mouthfeel of your weizen recipe.

Fermentation temp and results?

Thoughts?
Ron Price

Offline euge

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 12:36:41 PM »
I do a single decoction and add at the end of the mash. Don't care if it raises the temp or not so I guess it's a single infusion as well. I've had better results with decoctions as opposed to not doing one.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline Jimmy K

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 01:05:07 PM »
I know Greg swears that a hef just can't be done right without decoction mashing.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 01:20:38 PM »
I do a step mash that includes 60min at 145F and 15min at 158F.  The first step gives me a fermentable wort, the second gives me enough body.  I haven't used a ferulic acid rest and still seem to get plenty of clove.

How come this got moved from the AG section anyway?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 01:22:50 PM by tomsawyer »
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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 01:25:18 PM »
How come this got moved from the AG section anyway?

Not just there.  When I just got on a looked at "Unread" it was listed a bunch of times.  Looked like Ron and Fred were playing catch or something.
Joe

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 01:30:11 PM »
Oh yeah.  For the mash schedule on the one I'm doing this weekend, I'm gonna play with the "Markus Hermann Weihenstephan reverse step mash".  Something (haven't done the math yet) along the line of...

Mash half at 145-149F to completion

Add remaining mash to cool to 95F (86-104F)

Pull 1/3 into small pot, pressure cook pseudo-decoct

Add to cool 2/3 to raise temp

Add boiling water to raise to 152F

Mash to completion.
Joe

Offline jeffy

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 02:18:09 PM »
Oh yeah.  For the mash schedule on the one I'm doing this weekend, I'm gonna play with the "Markus Hermann Weihenstephan reverse step mash".  Something (haven't done the math yet) along the line of...

Mash half at 145-149F to completion

Add remaining mash to cool to 95F (86-104F)

Pull 1/3 into small pot, pressure cook pseudo-decoct

Add to cool 2/3 to raise temp

Add boiling water to raise to 152F

Mash to completion.

Never heard of that one before.  Does the partially mashed grist help with the ferulic acid rest or what?
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline bluesman

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 02:23:48 PM »
How come this got moved from the AG section anyway?

Not just there.  When I just got on a looked at "Unread" it was listed a bunch of times.  Looked like Ron and Fred were playing catch or something.

Fred and I were playing tic tac toe. He won.  ;D
Ron Price

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 02:26:12 PM »
Oh yeah.  For the mash schedule on the one I'm doing this weekend, I'm gonna play with the "Markus Hermann Weihenstephan reverse step mash".  Something (haven't done the math yet) along the line of...

Mash half at 145-149F to completion

Add remaining mash to cool to 95F (86-104F)

Pull 1/3 into small pot, pressure cook pseudo-decoct

Add to cool 2/3 to raise temp

Add boiling water to raise to 152F

Mash to completion.


That sounds interesting. Is this their current technique?
Ron Price

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 04:06:10 PM »
That sounds interesting. Is this their current technique?

I really have no idea.  I read about it at (among several other places) Kai's wiki...

Maltase is an enzyme that has its optimum between 30 and 40 C and can split a single glucose molecule from the non-reducing end of a glucose chain (similar to β-amylase which splits a glucose pair from the non-reducing end of glucose chains). It's affinity to the substrate increases as the degree of polymerization decreases and it is highest for maltose (degree of polymerization is 2) [Kessler, 2006]. But it is generally of little interest in mashing as at its working temperature there is not much maltose present in the wort (which assumes that the mash is doughed in at or below 40 C). If activity of this enzyme is desired to increase the glucose level of the wort the mash needs to be held for saccharification at 63-65C and after having been cooled to 40 C fresh malt is added which also adds new maltase enzymes. After a rest of 30-45 min the mash is heated again to convert the starch that has been added with the new malt. This mash schedule has been introduced by Markus Hermann from the Weihenstephan brewing school to produce high glucose worts for ester rich Weissbiers [Hermann, 2005]

...but I can't find that particular reference he footnotes.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Starch_Conversion
Joe

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 04:10:40 PM »
Never heard of that one before.  Does the partially mashed grist help with the ferulic acid rest or what?

As I understand it, 86-104F is the temp range at which the maltase enzyme is active (denatured above 115F).  Maltase breaks down maltose into glucose.  Maltose gets produced in the mash at sacc temps (145-155F or so) so when maltase is active there's no maltose and by the time there is maltose, the maltase has been denatured.  This mash schedule is a way around that.
Joe

Offline jeffy

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 04:46:56 PM »
Never heard of that one before.  Does the partially mashed grist help with the ferulic acid rest or what?

As I understand it, 86-104F is the temp range at which the maltase enzyme is active (denatured above 115F).  Maltase breaks down maltose into glucose.  Maltose gets produced in the mash at sacc temps (145-155F or so) so when maltase is active there's no maltose and by the time there is maltose, the maltase has been denatured.  This mash schedule is a way around that.
So it is a method of making glucose.  How does this affect the flavor and fermentability?
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 05:09:40 PM »
So it is a method of making glucose.  How does this affect the flavor and fermentability?

Well, according to the "Brewing a Wheat Beer with Intensive Banana Aroma" by Michael Eder in the May/June 2010 Zymurgy, "The greater the difference between the glucose and maltose in the wort, the more ethyl- and isoamyl acetate will be produced by the yeast".  Basically, it's accentuating the banana in favor of the clove.
Joe

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 05:17:00 PM »
I brewed two hefeweizens this past summer.  For both, I employed a hockhurz double decoction mash with the traditional rests at 145 and 160.  They were outstanding hefeweizens, but, to be honest, I'm not sure if that was a result of the mash schedule.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: German Hefeweizen
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 06:10:49 PM »
I brewed two hefeweizens this past summer.  For both, I employed a hockhurz double decoction mash with the traditional rests at 145 and 160.  They were outstanding hefeweizens, but, to be honest, I'm not sure if that was a result of the mash schedule.

I am considering the Hockhurz DDM. I would really like to try this against a single infusion mashed wort in side by side blind tasting just for curiosity's sake.
Ron Price