Author Topic: Help Please with a Saison  (Read 1521 times)

Offline dons

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Help Please with a Saison
« on: September 23, 2011, 09:48:18 AM »
I need some opinions on what I was about to brew until I entered this recipe into Brewsmith.  Unfortunately, I have all of the ingredients, but do not want to be wasting my time.  I took this from NB Petite Saison kit directions (Petite Saison D'ete).  Now unless D'ete means "we are just fooling with ya", I don't understand it.  I had to make some substitutions as recommended by my HBS, but what I have now I cannot even match a style to on Beersmith.  It is:

4.5 lbs Belgian Pilsner
2.75 lbs Vienna
.75 lbs Torrified Wheat
1 oz Kent Goldings - 60
.25 oz Styrian Goldings - 10
.25 oz Saaz - 10
.75 oz Styrian Goldings - 2
.75 oz Saaz - 2
White Labs Saison Blend (568)

My first issue was that Beersmith said that this yeast had 20b cells and that I needed 147b.  With starter I still only get 63b - something seems screwy.  This would mean I should use 3 yeast vials (quite a lot of expense and does not seem right to me).

The next issue is just the readings on the OG, IBU, ABVs.  Now, I know I should just brew what I might like, but every style I compare this against has most of the readings in the red area. 

As much as I don't want to trash all this stuff, I don't want to use my time and keg space on something that is not very drinkable.  Does anyone have an opinion about what this might taste like AND if I really need that much yeast?

TIA.
Don

PS:  One of the comments on the NB site said that this beer, while tasty, was like a cross between a helles and a wit.  But I still can't find anything that makes sense.
I've finally figured out my problem.  I have Cenosillicaphobia.

Offline eltharyon

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 10:15:05 AM »
Its a Session Saison right, low ABV.
The BJCP says Saison OG is 1.048, even NB has this only at 1.041(out of style).

That's why your numbers are probably showing as off, its a small beer.  This is one of the downsides of relying too much on software, brew by feeling...think about what you are using...you have 8lbs of grain in a 5 gallon batch that's pretty small.  Look at the description they provide.

Of course, yes I do write my recipes on a piece of software, 1 I am too lazy to do SRM and IBU etc math, 2 I don't know some of my ingredients all that well or I am using different things.


Offline danny

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 10:39:40 AM »
brew it.
it will taste great.  Its not that far off from what a saison should be. mash on the higher side, say 156- 158.
you should be ok with the yeast, if I am not mistaken that yeast is a blend of WLP saison and Brett.  it will finish nicely with a 2000ml starter.

brew it.

Offline dons

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 11:40:28 AM »
it will finish nicely with a 2000ml starter.

How about with a 1000ml starter?  Probably all I can do with 1 vial of yeast, right?
Problem is that I'm at over a 3 hour drive from my HBS.
I've finally figured out my problem.  I have Cenosillicaphobia.

Offline hokerer

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 12:11:16 PM »
it will finish nicely with a 2000ml starter.

How about with a 1000ml starter?  Probably all I can do with 1 vial of yeast, right?

One vial should have no problem with a two liter starter
Joe

Offline Mark G

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 01:17:34 PM »
The recipe actually doesn't sound bad at all. Go ahead and brew it, you'll most likely enjoy it. That yeast is a blend of saison and and some other belgian ale strains I believe. I'm pretty sure there's no brett in it. If those were the ingredients I had on hand, I'd mash lower, say 148ish, and add some table sugar, say 1 pound, to make sure you get that dry finish you're looking for in a saison.

As far as a starter, I'd suggest using mrmalty.com to calculate your starter size. One vial into a starter should be plenty in this case.
Mark Gres

Offline denny

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 01:46:46 PM »
How about with a 1000ml starter?  Probably all I can do with 1 vial of yeast, right?
Problem is that I'm at over a 3 hour drive from my HBS.


While 1 vial may not be enough for 5 gal., it's more than enough for a couple qt. starter.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2011, 02:04:39 PM »
As far as the OG, IBU, ABV etc...The recipe profile in Beersmith is set to the BJCP style you select. The middle of the bar is where the middle road for the style lies and this is a rough indicator. Dial in your hops and malt bill accordingly to get to the degree you want to achieve. I wouldn't get too hungup on an exacting recipe profile...just try to keep within an acceptable limit.
Ron Price

Offline snowtiger87

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Re: Help Please with a Saison
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 11:05:30 AM »
I would call this a table Saison. If you want a light beer with a lot of flavor (from the yeast) brew it as is. One starter should be fine. That yeast is a blend of 565 and a couple other Belgian more neutral yeasts to help it finish without the 565 typical 2 week lag.
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