Author Topic: high alcohol bottling  (Read 3746 times)

Offline rjharper

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2011, 03:17:17 PM »
So no secondary, generally once you transfer to secondary you have removed so much yeast that it has a hard time finishing up any remaining sugar.

I have to disagree here.  I bottle conditioned for 4 years, and every batch was in secondary for a few weeks.  Yes it went into bottles very clear, but there was still enough yeast to do the job, even for 10 %abv beers.  Never had to add more yeast.

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2011, 03:32:31 PM »
So no secondary, generally once you transfer to secondary you have removed so much yeast that it has a hard time finishing up any remaining sugar.

I have to disagree here.  I bottle conditioned for 4 years, and every batch was in secondary for a few weeks.  Yes it went into bottles very clear, but there was still enough yeast to do the job, even for 10 %abv beers.  Never had to add more yeast.

I am not saying that moving to secondary will prevent bottles from carbing. I still think it's a good idea to add a little extra yeast though. What I am saying is simply that if the beer is not entirely finished moving to secondary CAN (not will) result in stressed out yeast that will not be able to finish up the primary fermentation.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2011, 03:33:29 PM »
i agree with not needing to add new yeast though.  i had a lager even that sat in cool garage for several months. added priming sugar and away it went., and i have no problem with adding priming sugar and naturally carbing in the keg.  
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2011, 04:40:14 PM »
Why not force carb in a keg and then fill the bottles?

I have to imagine though that for long term aging you are better off conditioning in the bottle as the yeast activity will scavenge any new o2 introduced during bottling.

On the one hand I imagine it is impossible to avoid at least a little o2 getting into each bottle when bottling from keg, even with the beer gun this would be true cause you are displacing a gas with a gas and there will be mixing.

On the other hand I worry about the SA trible bock issue and tamari flavoured beer.

what says our resident microbiologist?
You're right about the yeast scavenging O2 that is introduced during bottling, and even with a beer gun you'll introduce at least some, but if you use it right and cap on foam you really have very little O2 introduced in the end.  The beer bottled with yeast still might age better.
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Offline rjharper

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2011, 05:55:51 PM »
so what if we force carbed in a keg, then right before bottling shake the keg to get the yeast back into suspension.  that way its carbed, but we've still got yeast going into bottles for long term.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2011, 07:22:42 PM »
You could try it and report back. :)

I mostly keg, rarely bottle anything.
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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 09:33:40 AM »
so what if we force carbed in a keg, then right before bottling shake the keg to get the yeast back into suspension.  that way its carbed, but we've still got yeast going into bottles for long term.

I don't know if you would get the yeast metabolism that scavenges the o2 without adding additional sugar though. But as tom says, try it! not sure how you would test your hypothesis though. I guess side be side, bottle with sugar, keg and bottle with shaking, keg and bottle without shaking and then put the bottles somewhere warm and wait a couple months.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 10:19:37 AM »
so what if we force carbed in a keg, then right before bottling shake the keg to get the yeast back into suspension.  that way its carbed, but we've still got yeast going into bottles for long term.

I don't know if you would get the yeast metabolism that scavenges the o2 without adding additional sugar though. But as tom says, try it! not sure how you would test your hypothesis though. I guess side be side, bottle with sugar, keg and bottle with shaking, keg and bottle without shaking and then put the bottles somewhere warm and wait a couple months.
Sounds like the right way to test it to me. :)
Tom Schmidlin

Offline etbrew

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 02:27:29 PM »

So no secondary, generally once you transfer to secondary you have removed so much yeast that it has a hard time finishing up any remaining sugar.

I have to disagree here.  I bottle conditioned for 4 years, and every batch was in secondary for a few weeks.  Yes it went into bottles very clear, but there was still enough yeast to do the job, even for 10 %abv beers.  Never had to add more yeast.


It may be fine most of the time but highly recommend adding yeast at bottling time for high gravity beers.  All it takes is one batch of beer to not carbonate to make it worth the pennies it costs (or free if you use a slurry from a previous batch) to add a little insurance at bottling. This is especially true for beers that have been aged for extended periods in a carboy. 

Offline 1vertical

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2011, 11:34:50 AM »
I have had great luck with a proofed smack pack of yeast and a
sanitized glass eye dropper....a drop of yeast culture in each bottle.
 FWIW

This will allow you to use a fresh culture of a high alcohol tolerant
strain like Eau Da Vie
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Offline DW

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 01:05:36 PM »
Ok....Panic sets in.......Tried my Belgian quad after two and half weeks in the bottle at around 70 degrees.  I bottled from the secondary with about 4oz of priming sugar and did not add any additional yeast, such as cuvee.  It's dead flat!!!  I was planning on using it in a blind tasting of belgian quads on Dec 17, but that obviously ain't happening.  What do you guys think?  Can I salvage it without opening all the bottles and adding cooper's carbonation drops?  That will be a pain in the rear since most of my bottles were corked.  Maybe I should have added champagne yeast, as some on this forum recommended.  I had bottled a tripel years ago without any problems. 

Offline denny

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 01:34:05 PM »
I wouldn't do anything but wait for another 2 weeks.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: high alcohol bottling
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 01:39:05 PM »
Ok....Panic sets in.......Tried my Belgian quad after two and half weeks in the bottle at around 70 degrees.  I bottled from the secondary with about 4oz of priming sugar and did not add any additional yeast, such as cuvee.  It's dead flat!!!  I was planning on using it in a blind tasting of belgian quads on Dec 17, but that obviously ain't happening.  What do you guys think?  Can I salvage it without opening all the bottles and adding cooper's carbonation drops?  That will be a pain in the rear since most of my bottles were corked.  Maybe I should have added champagne yeast, as some on this forum recommended.  I had bottled a tripel years ago without any problems. 

+1 to Denny's suggestion.

Does the beer taste a little sweet like the priming sugar is still there? If so then like denny says wait a couple more weeks. If you can't taste any priming sugar then perhaps the cap on the bottle you tried was not tight. You could crack open another one and check.

could also be due to insufficiently mixed priming sugar so some bottles got too much and some not enough. When I am bottling I add the priming sugar to the bottling bucket first then rack the beer on top of it so it all mixes well. Sometimes I will GENTLY stir with a sanitized spoon as well just to make sure.

If, after a couple weeks it is still flat you do not want to add more sugar, you want to add more yeast. so you open each bottle and sprinkle a couple grains of dry yeast or a couple drops of rehdrated dry or liquid yeast into each bottle and recap.

good luck!
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