Author Topic: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?  (Read 5418 times)

Offline dhacker

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Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« on: October 07, 2011, 05:46:40 PM »
Just curious why I've seen a number of folks include it in their recipes only to be advised to drop it. I don't use it that much, but now I'm wondering why so much advice against its use. In its typical percentages, how much can it hurt a recipe?
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Offline hokerer

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 05:54:42 PM »
Don't think the point is that it might hurt anything but rather that is doesn't particularly help anything.  Get all your processes straight and there's no role for it so why bother.
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Offline corkybstewart

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 07:21:29 AM »
I'll still use it.  In my pilsners I like to mash around 148F, carapils helps keep the beer from being too thin.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 07:52:07 AM »
Cara Pils is just a tool. Often times it is not needed in a recipe. For instance, a lot of IPA recipes have a lb of crystal and then a  lb of cara pils - in that case it may not be needed. But if you are trying to increase the mouthfeel of a beer and for whatever reason and don't want to mash higher it can work. I also think that in the case of lighter lagers you can taste the cara pils. In an IPA, not so much.
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Offline denny

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 08:44:53 AM »
Don't think the point is that it might hurt anything but rather that is doesn't particularly help anything.  Get all your processes straight and there's no role for it so why bother.

I don't find that there's no point to it.  It's just another tool in the toolbox.  Like a screwdriver or hammer, you choose thew tool for the job you need to do.  

ETA: Yeah, what Keith said!
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2011, 08:54:04 AM »
I'll still use it.  In my pilsners I like to mash around 148F, carapils helps keep the beer from being too thin.

So I have to ask, why not just mash at higher temperature?
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Offline denny

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2011, 09:36:30 AM »
I'll still use it.  In my pilsners I like to mash around 148F, carapils helps keep the beer from being too thin.

So I have to ask, why not just mash at higher temperature?

Personally, I think that mashing higher gives me different results than using carapils.  Although, until I do side by side brews to test that, I wouldn't swear to it.
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Offline corkybstewart

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2011, 04:00:16 PM »
I'll still use it.  In my pilsners I like to mash around 148F, carapils helps keep the beer from being too thin.

So I have to ask, why not just mash at higher temperature?
maybe I'm wrong here but if I mash at higher temps I don't get the fermentability out of the base malts.  I don't want a thick pilsner, I  just don't want the thinness I get when I mash at 148 like I do with a saison or other Belgians.
I'd really just rather be brewing in sunny Carlsbad New Mexico

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 04:23:23 PM »
When I use it I usually use about 3%.
I would not go more then 5%.
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Offline The Professor

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2011, 04:33:04 PM »
I never heard of CaraPils getting a bad rap.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 08:05:58 PM »
I think throwing in CaraPils indiscriminately "for body" gets a bad rap, especially when many inexperienced brewers end up with under-attenuated beers to begin with.  But it has its place like any other malt.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2011, 04:33:10 AM »
I think throwing in CaraPils indiscriminately "for body" gets a bad rap, especially when many inexperienced brewers end up with under-attenuated beers to begin with.  But it has its place like any other malt.

^ Narvin nailed it!
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 01:08:54 PM »
I think throwing in CaraPils indiscriminately "for body" gets a bad rap, especially when many inexperienced brewers end up with under-attenuated beers to begin with.  But it has its place like any other malt.

^ Narvin nailed it!

+1.  I think Denny is right as well.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2011, 01:35:36 PM »
maybe I'm wrong here but if I mash at higher temps I don't get the fermentability out of the base malts.
That's an interesting thought. My thinking is that any ratio of fermentable sugars to dextrins that would result from a pale/carapils combination could also be obtained by a different mash using the base malt alone. But that's based on an assumption (and all the caveats that go with it) that carapils, aka dextrin malt, is primarily composed of starches from dextrin size on down. If there's a significant fraction of larger polymers, then the beta-amylase would have less to work with and the results could be different.

It would be an interesting experiment for someone with really precise mash temperature control.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Why Does Carapils Get a Bad Rap?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2011, 02:22:19 PM »
I was reading a thread over on home brew talk in which someone performed an experiment with crystal only brews and got between 50 and 70% AA with darker crystal being less fermentable. Given carapils light kilning I would suspect you would get a pretty fermentable sugar profile from it. So using it to add body and sweetness may not be as usefull as it would seem. There is a lot of starch that would also convert in presence of a base malt so that percentage might even be a little higher.

for whatever that is worth.

I haven't ever used it myself so I can't comment on it's value or lack thereof.
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