Author Topic: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?  (Read 1728 times)

Offline gimmeales

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yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« on: October 10, 2011, 10:46:43 AM »
Putting together a traditional Dusseldorf Alt to be brewed this weekend.  Actually, by the time I use the Hallertau I have, might be pushing into Sticke territory with hop-profile.  Was curious if spending the extra $ and 'trouble' to build a starter with WY1007 \WLP036 would be worthwhile over using some Nottingham I already have?

Everything I read is that  the German yeasts are clean, moderately attenuative, and low floccing - pretty similar, if not identical to what I get out of Nottingham which can also ferment on the low temp range.  I will probably mash higher if using the Notty due to it's higher attentuation.

Hoping to hear of experiences with both - thanks!

Offline denny

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 12:42:22 PM »
DEFINITELY NOT NOTTINGHAM!  Not only is 1007 traditional, it's perfect for the style.  Notty is just too tart IMO.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 12:53:26 PM »
1007 is the cleanest ale yeast I have used.  My favorite alt is Zum Uerige.  This is said to be the Uerige yeast.  Why not use it?
Jeff Rankert
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Offline gimmeales

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 01:03:31 PM »
Well, that was easy - I now have no reasonable defense for taking the easy way out of this one with the dry yeast.  Thanks for holding me accountable guys - 1007 it is!  :)

Offline denny

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 01:24:00 PM »
FWIW, I've made award winning alts with 1056 also.  But I think 1007 is better.
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Offline gimmeales

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 08:10:42 PM »
Well, that is good to know - think I'll still stick with the 1007 this time around since I've never used it, but in case of an emergency, good to know 1056 will do the job!

More of a style-specific conditioning question Denny, but do you just cold crash your Alts to clear them, use finings, drink it cloudy?  I was shooting for clear, so was planning on using finings, but if extended cold-conditioning improves the flavor, then I may skip that step and let the yeast do it's thing.

Offline majorvices

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 05:47:31 AM »
Alta and kolsch are traditionally filtered in cologne and dusseldorf so you will want to lager and fine for at least two weeks.
Keith Y.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2011, 07:07:50 AM »
I used to be a big proponent of Nottingham ale yeast for pretty much any style, as it was a good yeast for many years.  But lately, due to continued quality issues and bad experience myself, I really can no longer recommend it.  When it works, it works well, but if you ever try it, make sure you have a spare pack of US-05 in the refrigerator as well, just in case the Notty is dead, completely dead.
Dave

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Offline gimmeales

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 09:37:48 AM »
Thanks for the info Kieth - I will give this one a couple weeks in the fridge and hit it with gelatin as I would like to see it sparkling clear.  Just didn't know if traditionally the clarity was a presentation thing, or if as with lagers, flavor development during cold storage was a required attribute of the finished beer.  I'm guessing some of both

and Dave, just fyi - I'm doing a run of Danstar beers (2 with Windsor, 2 with Notty) just to compare to Fermentis products and have had excellent results.  They have also changed up their packaging which I heard was a part of their improved QC processes.  I do hear you on having US-05 around though - an awesome and easy yeast to use.

Offline skyler

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 10:01:08 AM »
Clarity is never just a presentation because suspended yeast alters the flavor and mouthfeel of a beer.

Offline gimmeales

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 01:20:31 PM »
well said, Skyler - don't know why I wasn't thinking about that.  Mouthfeel and flavor compounds sometimes dramatically affect taste.

I'm reminded of a filtered bottle of Gulden Draak in a promotional Belgian Beer Pack that was decidedly lifeless compared to the bottle conditioned versions I've had.  Then there's my recent toasted Malt Amber that lost some nice complexity after it cleared - wasn't bad bright, but the change was noticeable.

Offline ukolowiczd

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 01:51:51 PM »
My experience with that yeast is that it loves 60F. If it gets above 63F it can add a lot of undesirable sulfuring/acidic tastes - although drinkable and delicious, not the super clean taste I was looking for. On my 3rd try for a Kolsch I kept it at 60F using a freezer and temp controller then lagered it at 34F for 4 weeks; it was unbelievable and it was all about the perfect, crisp taste of 1007. So if you can try to control the temp.

Offline denny

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 02:03:21 PM »
Yep.  I like to run 1007 about 55F if possible.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline gimmeales

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 02:15:30 PM »
Don't know if I'll get down to 55F, but was at 62F (and hopefully still falling) this morning in an ice water bath.  Brewed yesterday and krausen forming this morning, hopefully I will have kept the esters\etc at bay!

Offline gimmeales

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Re: yeast selection for an Alt: Notty vs. German Ale?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 02:30:25 PM »
an update on this beer and a question:

My fermentor got up to 64 for ~6 hrs yesterday (forgot to swap out an ice pack in the water bath) after having sat at 61 since early Monday when active fermentation was underway.  Was I enough through the ester-producing primary phase by yesterday (36-40 hrs) to have avoided any unwanted esters for this one?

Can't do anything about it now, so I'm relaxing and having a homebrew, just wondering if my expectation of a nice, clean Alt isn't realistic.